Starter gear change

[vsop-dk]

Hi fiends, today was the day for the starter gear change and since this is my first step that deep into the engine, there is a couple of questions along the process that would be really nice getting some answers/input to.

I started out taking the right hand cover off, took off the gasket for the cover and scraped all remaining gaskets away from,the engine. Around every mounting hole there were gasket glued to the engine. It's all removed... So first question is would it be better when I mount the new gasket that the gasket gets glued to the cover and not onto the engine, that way I can save time eventually next time I'll have to do a similar maintenance inspection!?

Second step were to unscrew the clutch basket and there were three short bolts and Springs and three long bolts and Springs... Seen in the picture below. Is that how it's supposed to be? And not six equally long screws and Springs!?

Next were to look at the next step unmounting the remaining clutch basket and the center piece/rod is that supposed to have a distance of a cm or two into the case??

The center rod is shown here, should it be flat to the case or stick out a few cm?

Then when I've removed it all and took out the starter gear and put the piece in the vice and tightened it up recounting the pieces and tested it would engage.. Wich it did without spinning around... Then I tested the clutch and noticed while doing so, that the clutch worked fine just discovered that three plates were moving out when pulling the lever.

Here it's mounted and lever isn't pulled as you might can see its mounted and flat alligned.

Second picture shows when I've pulled the clutch and it can be a little difficult to see when not filmed in action, but the three outer clutch plates were moving out not all of the plates...

Since this is my first time doing this it would be great to have a second opinion and some feedback on this thanks you all....

Have a great Saturday

 

[Pat D]

I did this exercise last summer to tighten the spring(didn't work, have a new spring and gear waiting to be put in). As far as the gasket, just use motor oil. It'll seal, and you can re-use it several times. No gasket cement or other goop needed. As far as the clutch springs, they "should" all be the same length. That said, as long as there is no interference behind the hub, and each spring is the same and has the same amount of compression, it "should" work properly. Can't help ya on the plate movement. Good luck!

 

[XSLeo]

Lets start at the top. All the springs and bolts were the same length from the factory.
Springs get weaker as they age. This shortens the spring. Do all springs age the same, no. So a bit of difference in length can happen.
On the bolts those are not stock bolts. The stock bolts were Phillips head shoulder bolts. You have what looks like Mike's new bolt set up. A long spacer with a built on washer. This part matches the length of the stock screws from head to shoulder. The Allen head bolts go through these spacers.
Not a bad set up. I modded a set of screws with bunged up Phillips slots.
I might suggest replacing those springs with a set from 650central. MMM has springs of varying strength.
Ok, just to put this out there, notice the hole next the #6 you wrote on the pressure plate. This hole gets aligned with a matching dot on the hub. You can see this dot at about the 10:00 position in your second pic when reassembled.
When you work the lever the pressure plate only moves about 4 or 5 mm. The oil between the plates holds them together. They may come apart as you watch them at any place. Not much to worry about there.
On the gasket motor oil, grease anti-sieze all seal well and keep the gasket from sticking.
Even on a brand new spring it may not be tight enough. So do the Squeeze on the new one. There is a thread talking about this.
Leo

 

[fredintoon]

Hi vsop,
unlike Britbikes where you thread the spring holding screws in and out to vary the clutch tension, the Yamaha clutch uses shoulder bolts that screw down to a fixed length and the clutch tension is varied by using stronger or weaker springs.
Some owners have found that while the stock springs let the clutch slip the stronger springs made the clutch difficult to pull.
The compromise was to only fit 3 stronger springs and retain three standard ones.
I suspect that's what happened to yours.

 

[ippytattoo]

To add to the debate when I count the turns on the different length springs I am seeing 9 wraps on the longer ones and 7 wraps on the shorter ones. At some point someone may have put in 3 stiffer springs trying to cure a slipping clutch. If I am reading it right it appears that #1,3,& 5 were the longer springs and #2,4,& 6 were the shorter springs. If this is so and you want to go back with the same springs (assuming you were having no issues with your clutch) just use the same pattern of long, short, long, short to keep even pressure plate loading but in all honesty a new set of springs from MMM at 650central is a very good idea. I may also suggest an Alto 8-pack clutch (which I just so happen to sell) since with the 7 plate clutch you have now there is no mods what-so-ever to do, it is a drop in swap and increases the surface area of the clutch which definitely helps with clutch slippage without having to go to heavier springs. My apologies for the shameless sales plug.

 

[vsop-dk]

Pat D, thanks for your response.. since its a first timer for me this "Deep" into the engine it went well I think.. just spend alot of time scraping off all the gasket leftovers. Ill do the gasket and semi soak it in engine oil... hope that will suffice.

I did this exercise last summer to tighten the spring(didn't work, have a new spring and gear waiting to be put in). As far as the gasket, just use motor oil. It'll seal, and you can re-use it several times. No gasket cement or other goop needed. As far as the clutch springs, they "should" all be the same length. That said, as long as there is no interference behind the hub, and each spring is the same and has the same amount of compression, it "should" work properly. Can't help ya on the plate movement. Good luck!

 

[vsop-dk]

Hi XSLeo, thanks for the feedback.. I watched a video made by Carbon and took notice of the allignment hole. Thanks allso for pointing that out

Why does the pressure plates move at all? perhaps I should dig in and find out the technical aspects of the clutch..

Have a great day

Lets start at the top. All the springs and bolts were the same length from the factory.
Springs get weaker as they age. This shortens the spring. Do all springs age the same, no. So a bit of difference in length can happen.
On the bolts those are not stock bolts. The stock bolts were Phillips head shoulder bolts. You have what looks like Mike's new bolt set up. A long spacer with a built on washer. This part matches the length of the stock screws from head to shoulder. The Allen head bolts go through these spacers.
Not a bad set up. I modded a set of screws with bunged up Phillips slots.
I might suggest replacing those springs with a set from 650central. MMM has springs of varying strength.
Ok, just to put this out there, notice the hole next the #6 you wrote on the pressure plate. This hole gets aligned with a matching dot on the hub. You can see this dot at about the 10:00 position in your second pic when reassembled.
When you work the lever the pressure plate only moves about 4 or 5 mm. The oil between the plates holds them together. They may come apart as you watch them at any place. Not much to worry about there.
On the gasket motor oil, grease anti-sieze all seal well and keep the gasket from sticking.
Even on a brand new spring it may not be tight enough. So do the Squeeze on the new one. There is a thread talking about this.
Leo

 

[vsop-dk]

Hi fredintoon, yes guess your right about the springs and the modification to make the clutch pull easier... Ill put it all together Again and test how it feels... Thanks

Hi vsop,
unlike Britbikes where you thread the spring holding screws in and out to vary the clutch tension, the Yamaha clutch uses shoulder bolts that screw down to a fixed length and the clutch tension is varied by using stronger or weaker springs.
Some owners have found that while the stock springs let the clutch slip the stronger springs made the clutch difficult to pull.
The compromise was to only fit 3 stronger springs and retain three standard ones.
I suspect that's what happened to yours.

 

[vsop-dk]

Hi ippytattoo ive send you an email, let me know if you get it, but im interested in your kit thanks... yes I put in the same springs Again and your right about the sequence

To add to the debate when I count the turns on the different length springs I am seeing 9 wraps on the longer ones and 7 wraps on the shorter ones. At some point someone may have put in 3 stiffer springs trying to cure a slipping clutch. If I am reading it right it appears that #1,3,& 5 were the longer springs and #2,4,& 6 were the shorter springs. If this is so and you want to go back with the same springs (assuming you were having no issues with your clutch) just use the same pattern of long, short, long, short to keep even pressure plate loading but in all honesty a new set of springs from MMM at 650central is a very good idea. I may also suggest an Alto 8-pack clutch (which I just so happen to sell) since with the 7 plate clutch you have now there is no mods what-so-ever to do, it is a drop in swap and increases the surface area of the clutch which definitely helps with clutch slippage without having to go to heavier springs. My apologies for the shameless sales plug.

 

[ippytattoo]

I did get your email and I will assist you any way I possibly can. If you have gotten to the point of removing the screws, springs and pressure plate you have gotten past the hardest part of a clutch plate swap. I will send you a detailed guide if you feel that you need it but the basic steps are very easy to follow. Once you have the pressure plate off you can go ahead and pull out all of your existing friction and steel plates. That is as far as you will need to disassemble things. Once you pull out the friction and steel plates separate the steel plates from the friction plates and save the steel plates. With the Alto 8-pack clutch you will have a total of 8 friction plates and 7 steel plates (6 will be the ones you saved from your existing setup and 1 will be a new one included in the kit). A thorough inspection of the steel plates is a good idea at this point to ensure that they are still flat and not "burned". If they are burned you will see a noticeable discoloration of the steel plates. Before you re-assemble the clutch you will need to soak the new friction plates supplied in the kit in the oil that you plan on using for at least 1 hour, overnight is better, as per Altos instructions. Then when you go to re-assemble the clutch you will need to start off with friction plate then a steel and repeat this pattern with the last plate put on being a friction plate and then the pressure plate. As always if you have questions or need any guidance with the Alto 8-pack clutch kit feel free to PM me here or email me at ippytattoo@live.com

Clayton

 

[vsop-dk]

Thanks ippytattoo, nice walkover ill manage that allso Carbons video is a good reference.

What will be the exact benefit of having 8 plates? some have 6 or 7 plates, exactly what are the purpose of more? Ive tried searching, and the only answer i could find were something like clutch slipping! but it doesnt say why more would be better.!

Thanks...

 

[ippytattoo]

The benefit of having 8 friction plates vs 6 or 7 has to do with surface area. I don't know exact figures so I will just use some figures to give you an idea. Lets say that each friction plate has 1 sq meter of surface area on each side, since both sides are in contact with a steel plate, and for each sq meter of surface area the clutch can handle 5 hp. So the figures would be (1*2)*7*5=70hp max before you get clutch slippage with a new 7 plate clutch and (1*2)*8*5=80hp max before you get slippage with a new 8 plate clutch. Now that is assuming that the friction materials are equal but Alto states that the friction material is designed to meet or exceed OEM specs and is the same material they use in 3000hp dragsters. So to shorten this up a bit more plates equals more surface area which allows you to put more power to the ground or if you are like me, hotrod around without having a slipping clutch.

 

[vsop-dk]

that makes good sense. Thanks for elaborating on this.

ill shoot you an email..