TCI system once again

[Britman]

http://www.xs650.com/threads/i-did-it-again.50415/

My new used ignitor box came in this morning so with high hopes I plugged in, tested voltage to the coil, all the connections, kill switch, and hit the starter with ultra high hopes only to be truly disappointed again by the lack of spark. The brain box I bought was not guaranteed and returnable since the salvage yard had no way of testing and had no idea if it came off of a running motorcycle. I have checked and double checked everything and the only solution I can come to is that there are two bad boxes laying on the workbench. Can anyone think of anything I have missed before I go in search of another ignitor. I am pretty sure this will be my first and last TCI ignition experience........

 

[grizld1]

Click "Tech" (top of page), scroll down to "Electrical," and "TCI box."

 

[nj1639]

Anybody near you with TCI that can check those units?

 

[Britman]

No, but I sure wish there was. I have read the repair section on these evil things, and sorry guys I am pretty sure it is well out of my realm of knowledge and expertise, hell Radio Shack is no longer in existence. For the time being I am pushing the bike into the corner and throwing a cover on it until I can find an answer. Please understand this machine is certainly not a keeper for me, it was suppose to be a quick flip to get it up and running and pass it onto new owner, maybe Papa Smurf himself. I will have to say it has certainly increased my knowledge of these early electronic systems and wiring in general. Anymore XS's that come through my garage with have a trusty old set of points, something you can fix. Worst come to worst, there will be some parts coming up for sale.............

 

[XSLeo]

Have you tested the pick ups? They are what signals the TCI box when to spark.
Leo

 

[Britman]

Have you tested the pick ups? They are what signals the TCI box when to spark.
Leo

Yep well within spec every time tested........

 

[Britman]

Going to try one more time, another "Guaranteed" off of a running motorcycle ignitor box is on the way. If this was a keeper for me the Pamco would have already been ordered.

 

[xjwmx]

http://www.xs650.com/threads/i-did-it-again.50415/
I have checked and double checked everything and the only solution I can come to is that there are two bad boxes laying on the workbench.

Check continuity through each connector measured from the connectors before and after it, or something, not by back probing the connector. Otherwise the crimp can be bad and you'd never know it. Wire can even be broken from vibration inside the insulation. I'd guess more likely the wiring than the box(es). Especially since other wiring on it had to be straightened out. And do you see a magnet on the rotor?

 

[Britman]

Second box came in and tested it last evening. Still no spark. In the middle of hell week at my part time employment so further testing will have to wait. I am starting to rule out the ignitor since I can't believe I could get three bac ones in a row. Continuity checked at all connectors, no issues. However a quick re-check of the Ebay used coil showed no secondary resistance, going to invest a cheapo new one with the same spec's for further exploration. Could I get that lucky???? I am beginning to feel like "Joe Btfsplk" from the Little Abner cartoon strip, probably only a few here a little long in the tooth will know who I am referring too..........

 

[MaxPete]

Hi Britman: That must be discouraging - what a bummer.

Having said that - it is hard to imagine three bad TCIs in a row. In my decades of experience with solid state electronics, these things may not always work properly, but they seldom fail.

By that I mean that the problem is virtually always either a bad connection or some other darned component in the chain has failed and I just haven't found it yet.

In conclusion, I'll bet you have at least one good TCI box and perhaps three - and you've got a broken wire or a loose/corroded/dirty connection somewhere else. My money is on a broken wire somewhere. Dammit.

Pete

 

[Britman]

Take a small victory when you can, enough of them you will win the war. With the help of the search feature on this fine forum I got the turn signals up and running this evening, I can't go a damn place but I do have turn signals. (The canceler unit has gone to a better place along with the reserve lighting box.) Still waiting on a coil and have been doing a little further research on the system and how the wires are routed compared to what the PO has done. I am pretty sure he may have had a drug problem. I have fought the Lucas Gods on a few British machines and always won, at least I am a little more optimistic there may be fire one day........

 

[Britman]

I would like to report it runs, not well but damned if doesn't run. Cheap coil did the trick apparently. Petcocks leak, TCI and various parts are hanging by wire ties but on to the next steps. Thanks one and all for all of your help............

 

[nj1639]

Test your TCI units now that you have it running. Keep at least one for a spare.

 

[Britman]

Test your TCI units now that you have it running. Keep at least one for a spare.

Already on the agenda. I got everything bolted and zip tied on enough to go around the block, and it made it. The old motor cranks over easy, fires up immediately, and will sit and idle all day with no smoking at all, "HOWEVER", there is a clutch replacement in my immediate future. Adjusted to the max and it slips like crazy, the good part is it does shift and I made it through all of the gears. I am not going to order any parts until I get in there and take a look, but I have been pricing out the discs and springs along with a replacement Suzuki rear master cylinder. I am hoping I can get the caliber freed up enough to use. The tach is also not working and looking at the gauge and idiot light setup it appears to have come from Mike's XS, so that has been added to plate. I have come to two conclusions on this alleged 1981 Yamaha XS650SJ, there is no way in the world I will ever get my money back out of it on a resale, secondly I am relatively sure the previous owner is the Antichrist or a close friend. The saving grace to this whole experience is the fact that out of all of the old ones I have resurrected, this one has given me the most new mechanical knowledge and it is adding to it every time I turn the key.............

 

[fredintoon]

Second box came in and tested it last evening. Still no spark. In the middle of hell week at my part time employment so further testing will have to wait. I am starting to rule out the ignitor since I can't believe I could get three bac ones in a row. Continuity checked at all connectors, no issues. However a quick re-check of the Ebay used coil showed no secondary resistance, going to invest a cheapo new one with the same spec's for further exploration. Could I get that lucky???? I am beginning to feel like "Joe Btfsplk" from the Little Abner cartoon strip, probably only a few here a little long in the tooth will know who I am referring too..........

Hi Britman,
some of us are old enough to remember Joe with his personal permanent thunderstorm over his head and how many TCI boxes would Joe Btfsplk have to buy before he tried a different coil?

 

[Britman]

Fred, I tested the old TCI box this afternoon before tearing into the clutch, no spark, so there is no extra one in my future. Speaking of clutch, who in the hell uses phillips head clutch spring bolts. What a PITA for my "Horrible Freight" impact tool, buggered the crap out of a couple of them. Plates are shot, all well below minimum thickness, but the springs are fine..........

 

[5twins]

What thickness spec are you going by? There are 2, 3mm and 3.5mm. The 3.5mm spec only applies to the very early plates, up to like '73. All the later plates are 3mm for the max or new spec, 2.7mm wear limit. Some of the aftermarket manuals say 3.5mm is for all years but that's not right. The usual problem with these is worn out or soft springs. They can measure correctly but still be too soft. I think it's an age thing. They've been in there and under compression for near 40 years and they just won't take it anymore, lol.

 

[fredintoon]

Fred, I tested the old TCI box this afternoon before tearing into the clutch, no spark, so there is no extra one in my future. Speaking of clutch, who in the hell uses phillips head clutch spring bolts. What a PITA for my "Horrible Freight" impact tool, buggered the crap out of a couple of them. Plates are shot, all well below minimum thickness, but the springs are fine..........

Hi Britman,
OK, alas no spare TCI box but at least you found one of them that still works so you are still better off than Joe Btfsplk would have been.
The fasteners ain't Phillips they are JIS which are an allegedly better class of crosshead recess so long as you have the correct JIS driver to match but it's still a daft idea.
Thing is, they are easy to install and that's all that the mfrs worry about. Getting the bastards out again is YOUR problem, eh?
Once you've got them out and tossed them MikesXS and other suppliers have a kit of Allen head fasteners & aluminum adapters that are a definite upgrade.
& what 5twins sez about plate thickness and tired clutch springs.

 

[Britman]

All of mine are around 2.0 or less, it is time. Springs

What thickness spec are you going by? There are 2, 3mm and 3.5mm. The 3.5mm spec only applies to the very early plates, up to like '73. All the later plates are 3mm for the max or new spec, 2.7mm wear limit. Some of the aftermarket manuals say 3.5mm is for all years but that's not right. The usual problem with these is worn out or soft springs. They can measure correctly but still be too soft. I think it's an age thing. They've been in there and under compression for near 40 years and they just won't take it anymore, lol.

Mine are well beyond gone. Highest measurement on the discs. 2.15 mm, the rest are below that. The springs however all test out at 35 to 36 mm. It is amazing the difference in prices when sourcing replacements. I have always used the cheapest ones around in my Brit bikes and never had a problem. Of course they were all soaked in oil overnight and a thin coat of lithium grease applied before bolting them up, it works and virtually eliminates clutch drag on British iron. I used the same process on a old Honda 450 and it worked also. Still on the fence with the Yamaha.....

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

All of mine are around 2.0 or less, it is time... Highest measurement on the discs. 2.15 mm, the rest are below that...

There are some 8-plate mods that use thinner discs. How many frictions on yours?

..they were all soaked in oil overnight and a thin coat of lithium grease applied before bolting them up, it works and virtually eliminates clutch drag on British iron. I used the same process on a old Honda 450 and it worked also. Still on the fence with the Yamaha.....

That's interesting, lithium grease on the plates? Can you tell us more?