-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
That Wrrrr Noise....
- Thread starter Bob Kelly III
- Start date
Michaelo
650Mick
I am sure we can donate some parts for you Bob, out there the members have some spares, list out your broken bits and let's see if we can come together and find some parts for you to get you bike running again.....
Mick
Mick
I support Mick's suggestion, Bob.
Also, you could keep you eyes peeled for a motor or XS with no title. Heck, I picked one up in trade for a Honda CB750 I paid $300 for.
Keep the faith, Bob !
There are many crankshafts going on Ebay.(USA) at the moment. Not too expensive either.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
LOL thanks for the support guys ! I'll just run it the way it is till it dies I guess !
.....
Bob.........
.....
Bob.........
Can't believe I'm posting this. Had to take the "perfectionist me", park him in another room, and release crazy "shadetree mechanic me". This is one of those desperation moves, what can you lose?
The $0 Farmer's Field Fix
The idea here is to straighten the crank, get it good enuff to run better, sound better, last longer. Using only yer hard-earned mekanikal skills.
First would be to study up on crank rebuilding. Not to rebuild it, but to understand the crank and methods. Pile drive thru gggGary's crank thread:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/crankshaft-split-overhaul-assembly.31213/
All you're going to do is "lead hammer" smack the right flywheel back into line.
Careful, complete engine teardown, gonna re-use gaskets and rings. Pull the crank. Pull the rightside ball bearing. Use a case half as a truing jig. Gotta setup some sort of dialgauge to monitor the right (primary side) shaft.
Do the "lead hammer" thing, getting the right flywheel trued.
Reassemble the whole thing. Enjoy.
If considering putting some money into it, I suppose you could prioritize what it would need, using the "shadetree" rules-of-thumb. Maybe this list, sorted by bang-for-the-buck:
1- Gaskets
2- Rings
3- Rightside crank ball bearing
4- Clutch hub
5- Crank primary gear
(Okay, just had to get this outta my system)...
The $0 Farmer's Field Fix
The idea here is to straighten the crank, get it good enuff to run better, sound better, last longer. Using only yer hard-earned mekanikal skills.
First would be to study up on crank rebuilding. Not to rebuild it, but to understand the crank and methods. Pile drive thru gggGary's crank thread:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/crankshaft-split-overhaul-assembly.31213/
All you're going to do is "lead hammer" smack the right flywheel back into line.
Careful, complete engine teardown, gonna re-use gaskets and rings. Pull the crank. Pull the rightside ball bearing. Use a case half as a truing jig. Gotta setup some sort of dialgauge to monitor the right (primary side) shaft.
Do the "lead hammer" thing, getting the right flywheel trued.
Reassemble the whole thing. Enjoy.
If considering putting some money into it, I suppose you could prioritize what it would need, using the "shadetree" rules-of-thumb. Maybe this list, sorted by bang-for-the-buck:
1- Gaskets
2- Rings
3- Rightside crank ball bearing
4- Clutch hub
5- Crank primary gear
(Okay, just had to get this outta my system)...
2m sure you weren't a HARLEY mechanic?
Picking nits; wouldn't worst out of true be found at 90 degrees to TDC BDC? assuming a scissors type wrist pin movement. (a big assumption) Guess I am the guy that could check............. Not sure where on the motor shelf that one is sitting, I did arrange them chronologically.
Picking nits; wouldn't worst out of true be found at 90 degrees to TDC BDC? assuming a scissors type wrist pin movement. (a big assumption) Guess I am the guy that could check............. Not sure where on the motor shelf that one is sitting, I did arrange them chronologically.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
LOL Well that's more My style 2M ! Thank you ! I can do that ! ....
what makes you thing it is the right crank piece ? is there a history of that slipping ?
.... How about I Jerry it and get it straight as possible... then weld the pin so it can't move again ? will that draw it out of alignment when it cools ?
.....I suspect it would and that is why their not welded to begin with ....
..... its so close now to being dead on though I think all I would do is Muck it up more !
I will save that for a winter project....
thank you 2M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very much !
......
Bob.....
what makes you thing it is the right crank piece ? is there a history of that slipping ?
.... How about I Jerry it and get it straight as possible... then weld the pin so it can't move again ? will that draw it out of alignment when it cools ?
.....I suspect it would and that is why their not welded to begin with ....
..... its so close now to being dead on though I think all I would do is Muck it up more !
I will save that for a winter project....
thank you 2M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very much !
......
Bob.....
But, but, but, I WAS. Worked on them AMF thingamajigs.
Harley motto: "If it breaks, make it bigger".
Yes. But, by using the primary gears' backlash, those gears mesh at 90° to the cylinders. So, at TDC, crankpin on top, the right wheel would be canted either fore or aft, giving max gearlash variation.
Thanx, Bob. That's all I got. Your other questions are answered in gggGary's crankshaft thread, and all the imbedded links. Think creatively. Happy insomnia...
Last edited:
Brilliant.
In fact, this "smack the crank" to true it was just what we used to do back when I (we) were rebuilding KT100 engines in my karting days. I routinely set up V-blocks
on my worktable, and smacked the crank when needed, checking it with the dial indicator as it progressed.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
LOL ! Mechanicing Caveman style ! HAHAHAH ! Nothing wrong with that....
I watched a Mechanic at Kawasaki in Redding Ca. Do that to MY crank on a A7 350cc rotary disk valve... I bought the bike and had it a day and the crank slipped and it quit and would not run I hauled it back in and they said they would fix it free of charge ..so I couldn't complain at that .... a week later I went in to see how long it was going to be and the Long haired mechanic was working on it so I went back and asked him
He said Yah the crank slipped ! I just took it all apart and am getting it back together now... he had the v-blocks out next to the press and dial indicators all set up ... I'ed never seen a pressed together crank taken apart before at the time so I started in with the questions, what does that do ? what's this and how does that work ? and he answered while he worked, so I didn't feel as I was bothering him... so I hung around about a half hour and shot the bull with him and the other mechanic. he set the crank on the v-blocks and spun it around a few times
and said Dammit ! and said" You don't see this" ...and smacked it with a deadblow hammer and spun it again and Laughed and exclaimed there we go !!!!! and put it in the press and finished pressing it all the way together ! ..... he only pressed it about half way together on the last flywheel so he could true it as he told me as he was checking it with the dial indicator...... i Never had another problem with that bike.
I ran the tires of it twice.... and finally traded it in on another bile I think.... I really don't recall right now...
I loved that bike as it would wheely easy in 1st, and bounce it in 2nd, next to my Dads RD350 it was neck and neck...but he usually pulled away
from me a bit once I hit 3rd I started gaining it back though ! LOL
......
Any Hoo.... I feel better as I got the bike almost completely back together now.... except both foot pegs and the Rear brake peddle.
I put oil in it and fired it up , started easy as Usual and it still has that Wrrrrrrr sound , something I will live with I guess.
but that's all the mechanicing I wanna do on this thing now , I wanna ride ! I just won't go more than about 50 miles one way away from the house ! LOL.......
I've been wanting to go take some pictures of old gas stations with my XS650 in front of it ! I know of about 3 not too far away !
hehehehe
..... Thanks to each and every one of you for your help and support ! that's as far as I'm going to go on it now!
Cheers !
Bob..........
I watched a Mechanic at Kawasaki in Redding Ca. Do that to MY crank on a A7 350cc rotary disk valve... I bought the bike and had it a day and the crank slipped and it quit and would not run I hauled it back in and they said they would fix it free of charge ..so I couldn't complain at that .... a week later I went in to see how long it was going to be and the Long haired mechanic was working on it so I went back and asked him
He said Yah the crank slipped ! I just took it all apart and am getting it back together now... he had the v-blocks out next to the press and dial indicators all set up ... I'ed never seen a pressed together crank taken apart before at the time so I started in with the questions, what does that do ? what's this and how does that work ? and he answered while he worked, so I didn't feel as I was bothering him... so I hung around about a half hour and shot the bull with him and the other mechanic. he set the crank on the v-blocks and spun it around a few times
and said Dammit ! and said" You don't see this" ...and smacked it with a deadblow hammer and spun it again and Laughed and exclaimed there we go !!!!! and put it in the press and finished pressing it all the way together ! ..... he only pressed it about half way together on the last flywheel so he could true it as he told me as he was checking it with the dial indicator...... i Never had another problem with that bike.
I ran the tires of it twice.... and finally traded it in on another bile I think.... I really don't recall right now...
I loved that bike as it would wheely easy in 1st, and bounce it in 2nd, next to my Dads RD350 it was neck and neck...but he usually pulled away
from me a bit once I hit 3rd I started gaining it back though ! LOL
......
Any Hoo.... I feel better as I got the bike almost completely back together now.... except both foot pegs and the Rear brake peddle.
I put oil in it and fired it up , started easy as Usual and it still has that Wrrrrrrr sound , something I will live with I guess.
but that's all the mechanicing I wanna do on this thing now , I wanna ride ! I just won't go more than about 50 miles one way away from the house ! LOL.......
I've been wanting to go take some pictures of old gas stations with my XS650 in front of it ! I know of about 3 not too far away !
hehehehe
..... Thanks to each and every one of you for your help and support ! that's as far as I'm going to go on it now!
Cheers !
Bob..........
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
2M..... would welding the pin in the crank be a good idea to keep it from slipping ?
.....
Bob......
and batten down the hatches looks like that hurricane is on top of ya !!!!
.....
Bob......
and batten down the hatches looks like that hurricane is on top of ya !!!!
Ppl who are down that far into it and who can weld do weld the crank. Funny how they always talk about the bulletproof crank and the crank is the thing that tried to kill me too.
I think the guy I mentioned was selling cranks for about $60 though. I mean really you know?
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Gees that's not a bad price at all ! I figured $700 bucks minimum ....
I wonder if those cranks are any good .... do you know of anyone that has used them ?
.....
Bob........
I wonder if those cranks are any good .... do you know of anyone that has used them ?
.....
Bob........
It's slipping?
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Xjwmx: you mentioned the crank alignment pins , on VW engines , the old pancake 4 cylinder one's they had the same alignment of the bearings... took me a while to figure out why the case halves would not go together pulled the crank back out and discovered the pins and holes in the bearings.... and Yes starting at one end and working your way down to the other you can get them in but it'a a time consuming job and takes a good feel for those pins !!!!!! I wasn't aware that the xs650 crank had that type of pin set up ...thanks for the heads up !
I'll probably try to save the crank myself....put new rings in it and do a valve job and maybe new crank bearings, at least on the right side as that is the side that transmits the HP....
I'm not sure but I think it came from the factory with that much crank wobble in it....but that really don't sound very possible...surely their quality control is better than that.... as far as I know it'a always made that noise....so maybe it slipped on the first starting ?
I have a dial indicator for 2 stroke Top end TDC finding.... ain't used it in years... but perhaps I could use it to set the crank to being true...
I have seen where guys gave bored holes in the crank to put pins in there to make the crank stable.... also hurd that that weakened the crank too ! .... also hurd that people do indeed weld the pins that are pressed in but I don't know if there is any reprocussions like warping of the crank that you have to deal with ..... my experience with welding is that no matter what it is it will warp it a tiny amount the thicker the metal the less warpage and the crank is mighty thick so it should be ok....
it would be Hell to have it all perfectly lined up and weld it so it can't move and then discover it warped it the same amount it was off before ! LOL ....... but I suppose you could bring it back with a 20 ton press if you did it carefully.....
....that would be tricky in deed.... how much does the metal flex before it bends and then bend it that much and .002 more..... LOL
that's something for 2M to do ...not me ! LOL
....
Hay if nothing else My Voltage meter looks Cool and it's solid as a rock on there ! seams to be holding good with the "Shoe-Goo" LOL
....
Bob..........
I'll probably try to save the crank myself....put new rings in it and do a valve job and maybe new crank bearings, at least on the right side as that is the side that transmits the HP....
I'm not sure but I think it came from the factory with that much crank wobble in it....but that really don't sound very possible...surely their quality control is better than that.... as far as I know it'a always made that noise....so maybe it slipped on the first starting ?
I have a dial indicator for 2 stroke Top end TDC finding.... ain't used it in years... but perhaps I could use it to set the crank to being true...
I have seen where guys gave bored holes in the crank to put pins in there to make the crank stable.... also hurd that that weakened the crank too ! .... also hurd that people do indeed weld the pins that are pressed in but I don't know if there is any reprocussions like warping of the crank that you have to deal with ..... my experience with welding is that no matter what it is it will warp it a tiny amount the thicker the metal the less warpage and the crank is mighty thick so it should be ok....
it would be Hell to have it all perfectly lined up and weld it so it can't move and then discover it warped it the same amount it was off before ! LOL ....... but I suppose you could bring it back with a 20 ton press if you did it carefully.....
....that would be tricky in deed.... how much does the metal flex before it bends and then bend it that much and .002 more..... LOL
that's something for 2M to do ...not me ! LOL
....
Hay if nothing else My Voltage meter looks Cool and it's solid as a rock on there ! seams to be holding good with the "Shoe-Goo" LOL
....
Bob..........
Hey Bob,
I'm a big Shoo Goo Guy, too. It holds together bunches of my stuff, including additional soles I glue to my motorcycling boots when they wear out. And a new zipper in one of my biker leather jackets, and......well, you get the idea.
HF has a magnetic base for the dial indicator for about 12 bucks:
and for a few dollars more a dial indicator gets thrown in. I would send you mine to use, but I use it frequently. Probably lots of used stuff on fleabay.
I found a bunch of vids on UTube demonstrating crank trueing just like you saw at that bike shop.
I'm rootin' for ya to keep this '83 alive one way or another; I've got a '83 Heritage Special, too, and its a grand old lady.
Last edited:
Bob,
In regards to welding the crank pin, I havent done such myself, but reading about this procedure, (this is not a XS crank, of course)
it seems to be done quite a bit in the domain of bike drag racing. I'm not reading anything in their forums that speaks to warpage following a TIG weld.
In regards to welding the crank pin, I havent done such myself, but reading about this procedure, (this is not a XS crank, of course)
it seems to be done quite a bit in the domain of bike drag racing. I'm not reading anything in their forums that speaks to warpage following a TIG weld.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Ahhh Ha ! that'a about the amount of welding I had in mind too !
I have a Dial indicator.... and I can rig up a support that's solid
so no problem there..... I'm just thinking it will be a while down the road before I do it as the parts needed are expensive to me !
She's Not dead yet and these XS650's are Tough machines...that's why I like'em ! .... if I ran the engine near Redline all the time it wouldn't last long ...but I don't and at the Low RPM's I run her at she'll go forever ! LOL
.....
Bob.........
I have a Dial indicator.... and I can rig up a support that's solid
so no problem there..... I'm just thinking it will be a while down the road before I do it as the parts needed are expensive to me !
She's Not dead yet and these XS650's are Tough machines...that's why I like'em ! .... if I ran the engine near Redline all the time it wouldn't last long ...but I don't and at the Low RPM's I run her at she'll go forever ! LOL
.....
Bob.........
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Well it Must have slipped to be out of true a little RIGHT ? or would you venture to say the crank BENT ?
I think the crank disks have slipped on the rod PINS where their pressed together..... so get it true and then weld it so it can't SLIP again !
sound reasonable ???
Bob......
