Unusual experience starting the TX...

[TeeCat]

Hi, guys...

Question for you:

My bike has come to have me know her as a bike that starts almost infallibly on the first or second "hot" (kill/key on) kick... even after several weeks of sitting. Today, however, when I went to take her for a little spin before the rain moves in, it must have taken 8 to 10 hot kicks, choke on, of course, for her to light off. This is very unusual for her.

My first thought was that the coil that I had just replaced back in the late winter had shit the bed, but with the other coil that failed, no amount of kicking would fire the bike. Today, though, once she fired, she came right off the choke normally, and everything thereafter was as if nothing had happened. I rode her up to about 100C before bringing her home, shutting off, and letting her sit for a few minutes. Then I hit the decompression lever while she was still warm... she lit right off. The voltmeter (on the bar) says the charging system is operating normally.

So, what do you think? Booger or little no-see-'em in the pilot (single carb conversion)? That's what I'm thinking. Or maybe I had somehow nearly emptied the bowl the last time I brought her home (I sometimes do that intentionally) and maybe the carb was not primed enough to light her off at first. Weird.

Anyway, I'll try again tomorrow if it's not raining. If she lights right off, then I suppose it was just one of those little things...

Cheers!

TC

 

[tonyc]

Check your ground connections, plugs, plug wires, and battery. Yes see if this occurs again. It could be a one-time XS mystery. I would not worry too much.

 

[TeeCat]

Hi, Tony...

Went out there after she sat for about 45 minutes and hit the decomp lever again. I'll bet the engine made barely a full turn before she lit right off and settled right into that 1200 rpm asymmetrical idle. I'm trying to remember if I idled the bowl dry last week when I put her away, but can't recall.

Will try again from cold tomorrow. That should tell the tale.

TC

 

[gggGary]

Could have been a flood condition?? If I don't get fire with full choke after 3 or 4 kicks or tries I will normally go choke off throttle open for a few then try just a tiny bit above idle throttle.

 

[650Skull]

+1 on what gggary says.

 

[TeeCat]

Mmmmmmm... could be. But what is "normal" for your guys' bikes? As long as I have primed her with about two cold kicks, the TX will normally light right off (with the choke) as soon as she sees heat and fuel at the same time.

TC

 

[650Skull]

don't fret unless it happens a few times and starting it straight after a ride or a warm up will not give you an indication of a problem cause everything is warmed up.
Several weeks is a long time, weather conditions like a cold spell or rain can have an effect and usually i have found the XS doesn't like to sit around for lengths of time. You don't like to be neglected so why would the bike

It is easy to get a flooded system, you can do the same procedure a 100 times and then for some reason it will happen and you don't think you have done any thing different I usually turn of the electrics and fuel, kick it over a few times then go back to my normal procedure.

 

[gggGary]

Tcat priming is useful.
My usual prime is to use "prime" on my vacuum petcock if the bike has been sitting for a while go find my coat and helmet and start it with full choke. For a first fire in the spring I might even drain the float bowls and "read the tea leaves" for a quick "anything going on I don't know about?" then run a bit more fuel through the carbs into the catch pan with prime, shut the petcocks and start it. I have had some engines that really want a no ignition "prime kick" like you use but not any of my stock carbed XS650s (so far anyways). I take it you have a Pamco teecat? A points ignition makes a prime kick a bit scary, doesn't take much to fuel foul a spark plug with points ignition.

 

[TeeCat]

starting it straight after a ride or a warm up will not give you an indication of a problem cause everything is warmed up.

Skull, I suppose what I was wanting there was to see how the coil would behave when hot, since I know that they can have a performance degradation as they heat up. Seemed to be fine then, though.

I take it you have a Pamco teecat? A points ignition makes a prime kick a bit scary, doesn't take much to fuel foul a spark plug with points ignition.

Yessir. You know, though, you have me questioning my own logic about the prime kicks, because based on what you're saying, I could be fouling the plugs when I think I'm priming. It might make more sense to just "go hot" right off the bat, and when she fires... she fires. That way I can't soak a plug inadvertently, really.

TC

 

[5twins]

Some bikes (like my big single) are more prone to flooding if you try to start them on the side stand. Must have something to do with the angle of the fuel in the bowl. I try to do all my cold starts with the bikes on the center stand.

 

[TeeCat]

twins, that makes perfect sense to me, and in my case may have special significance because I have one carb feeding two pots, and the carb bowl is the lowest point in the system. Parenthetically, this might explain why your big single is susceptible to flooding. In a multi-cylinder/multi-carb setup, I can see another cylinder lighting off and "carrying" the other one til it lights. But with one fuel source... well, you got what you got, I suppose!

TC

 

[TeeCat]

Guys, by way of a brief update, I went out there last evening to do a little impromptu start. This time, I turned the key and kill on right away, and then kicked; she lit right off on the second kick and came off the choke quickly. So, perhaps the bowl was simply not quite full enough last time... one of those silly little things, I suppose. But at least I seem to have dispelled my coil fears.

Thanks again for your input, y'all!

TC

 

[gggGary]

Teecat I went and looked at close up of your carb and because the carb is angled off the bike's centerline any tipping of the bike will change the effective float level. Maybe not a big thing, but if you are kick starting with the bike on the sidestand maybe it raises the float level enough to allow flooding????

 

[TeeCat]

Teecat I went and looked at close up of your carb and because the carb is angled off the bike's centerline any tipping of the bike will change the effective float level. Maybe not a big thing, but if you are kick starting with the bike on the sidestand maybe it raises the float level enough to allow flooding????

Gary, thanks for taking the time to look at that, and I think you have a really good point. Offhand, I can't recall exactly where the pilot is located in a VM (high or low side, etc.), but I'll bet that either a flooding or starvation scenario could be at play, depending on whether I idle the bowl down at all. This rarely ever happens, but it's interesting nevertheless. And I do kick on the sidestand (I am most comfortable straddling the bike... I don't do the "jump kick" like you see most often).

TC

 

[5twins]

I do all my kicking with the bike on the centerstand, non-kicking foot on the opposite side (of kicker) footpeg. Having that other foot on the ground makes kicking on the centerstand difficult at best. Train yourself to operate the kicker in this manner and I think you'll have the best luck at quick, consistent starts.

 

[TeeCat]

I do all my kicking with the bike on the centerstand, non-kicking foot on the opposite side (of kicker) footpeg. Having that other foot on the ground makes kicking on the centerstand difficult at best. Train yourself to operate the kicker in this manner and I think you'll have the best luck at quick, consistent starts.

I'll have to try it out that way, twins.

I only go about 153 or so, but I think my bicycling racing history has contributed to lack of difficulty kicking in the sidestand. I have a long femur so it's like a "snap" motion with my right glute. So it has never occurred to me to try it the other way.

 

[xjwmx]

I think with the fuel pickup in the center of the carb, the fuel will be at the same average level even with a side to side tilt since there's a float on each side of the pickup. Within a certain range. I've had one or two weird starting issues under extreme circumstances, but it never repeated. If it only happened once it didn't happen is my mantra. Or better, it's not a problem unless it happened a lot more than once