Weird kick start problem, it just spins....

[madeindetroit]

Ok been building my bike for a while now. Just got it off the bench.
Ive had it running a bunch of times on the bench and once I got it off the bench.
Engine runs and everything is fine.

So I am all excited to give it a rip down the road....
I fire it up, hold in clutch, put in first, Boom it stalls @#$%!
So I mess with the worm gear and my adjustments and I cant seem to get the clutch to work.

I read on here that the clutch disks can stick, so I am like well it sat for about a year without clutch action so it must be that.

I pull in clutch and can hear it clicking or moving inside the engine (while off).
I rock the bike a bunch of times trying to unstick it.... nothing.

So I let it sit overnight with the clutch lever pulled hoping some oil would get in there and loosen the disks up.

I get home today and test it agian, nothing , while in gear I can hear the motor compress and move.
So i am like ok ill put it on jacks and start it in neutral and let it warm up and spin the rear tire.

I go to kick it and in neutral the kick start just spins now!! WTF!! I disconnect clutch cable and it still spins. WTF! I put it in gear and move kick start and it moves bike WTF

So confused now on what is going on. How can neutral not engage clutch but in gear its locked?

Sorry for the book trying to paint a picture.
Any ideas?

I feel that my clutch is disengaged somehow. thus allowing neutral to spin but why is it spinning in gear?

 

[angus67]

Silly question. do you have the bike in neutral, and clutch lever out when you kick it? of course you do....right?
My plates stick some times, and I just (with kill in off position) bike in neutral, pull in clutch lever, kick until the kicker goes limp, usually 2 or three kicks, and since that also turns the motor over, it charges the cylinders, once the kicker goes limp, turn kill to run, clutch lever out, bike in neutral, one kick starts mine, full choke.

 

[madeindetroit]

Ya my kicker is limp as well I wong go there lol.
It just spins and spins no resistance like its not engaging with the gear set?
It did run before it stalled and me messing with the clutch cable but its just so weird.
With clutch disconnected and adjuster backed out in worm gear it still is limp.

 

[angus67]

the anchor that the kickerspring may have snapped off, or more likely, the end of the kicker spring wasn't quite on the anchor all the way and it slid off. Gonna have to pull the right side case to look. should be easy..
Here is a link to some good reading about the kicker....
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=772

 

[madeindetroit]

Ill be tearing into it this weekend.
I installed it using that link

 

[Captmilk]

I installed the gear wrong my first run through. Its a pain getting that spring in place.

 

[madeindetroit]

but would a wrongly installed spring fire up an engine numerous times? Then out of the blue stop working?

 

[madeindetroit]

So was curious and took timing cover off, put in first gear, and stepped on kick start.
Bike will move forward but crank does not spin.

I put kick start up and roll bike forward and back. I can see crank move a tad but then stops.

Mind you this is with no clutch usage, its actually disconnected.

 

[cam green]

Don't pull your case just yet...
Pull your worm gear cover off and adjust your clutch till its all the way in or out.. Can't remember, but the opposite to where it is now.
Then check to see if your kickstarter will engage, if not adjust it the other way. Don't worry about weather the clutch disengages just yet, just see if you can get the kickstarter to engage. When you do, you can then fine tune your clutch.

I had this problem a few weeks ago when I over compensated when adjusting my clutch. It was a easy 5 min job to just back it off slightly and then bingo... Fixed!

 

[madeindetroit]

Its fully backed out now and cable/lever not doing anything.
I feel like clutch is stuck open now or something.

 

[peanut]

difficult to make sense of this ?

You said you kick started the bike in first gear and the bike moved forward yet the crankshaft didn't spin ??? something screwy there .

If the bike stalled when you put it in 1st and moved forward when you kick started it then the clutch is definitely transferring drive to the gearbox . Presumably when you pull in the clutch lever the clutch is not disingaging yes.

Are the clutch rods and ball bearings back correctly with the rods the right way round ?
Do you have the single clutch rod with 1x ball bearing ? or the two rod 2x ball bearing assembly ?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hey, madeindetroit,
Readin your thread, kicker moves rear wheel when in gear means kicker and trans ok.
The confusing part is the 'rock the bike and motor moves while in gear', then 'kicker spins freely while in neutral'.
When these clutch plates stick, they can do this funny stuff. You also mentioned hearing some clicking while manipulating clutch lever (earlier on), sounds to me like something is wrong either in the pushrod arrangement, or (if you have a later model) possible misalignment of pressure plate to hub splines. Sounds like rt cover gotta come off...

 

[madeindetroit]

Thanks for all the help guys,
I have the 2 balls 2 rods style push rod setup.

I just bought a bunch of new stuff for the clutch activation, including worm gear assembly and 1 pc push rod.

I plan on pulling the right cover this weekend and taking apart clutch, and installing new push rod setup.

The shorty push rod part that touches the worm gear ball popped out once when I was doing the PMA swap. I have a suspicion that maybe that intermediate ball fell out too. thus the reason for ordering new parts.

I read that you cant kick start bike in any gear? If thats the case would that mean kick start spins trans gear but not clutch/crank? Thus causing the bike to move when in gear, but not spin clutch/crank?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

The kickstart directly drives the transmission, hence the need to be in neutral to kickstart.
It does so thru those two transmission gears rightmost (clutchpack side) in the crankcase.
If the clutch is disengaged, the clutch basket won't spin, and that drives the engine thru the primary gears.
Glad you're getting the 1-piece pushrod, recommend replacing guide bushing too, unless you've already done so, or the fit is close.
Check the new pushrod by rolling on very flat surface, perfectly straight is best.
Also, polish the area of the pushrod that slides in/out of the seal, including the entire area beyond that, to avoid seal scratching during install.
Double-check clutch pack assembly, especially the thrust washer(s) order, and alignment splines on outer pressure plate.
Clutchpack total thickness is important, especially if using mix/match plates. I believe there's threads here that cover that...

 

[madeindetroit]

Installed single push rod with one ball. took right side cover off and some how the clutch was stuck uncompressed
Clutch pack was stuck together too. Also noticed PO did not align the holes in the clutch properly so I fixed that.

Cleaned it all up. put oil in it.
Rocked it back and forth, and it moved properly!

Started it up and went for the first spin!!

Now to get timing down and fuel