What have i done? First Build

[jonnyk]

Not sure how to tweak the harbor freight stuff, but in my experience there are certain things worth spending the money on, and welders are one of them. MILLER FOR LIFE!!!
That said, let me know how it works out for you. All you ever hear is horror stories, like to hear if you can make it work out

 

[andrsn]

Question - I measure my maximum piston width and minimum cylinder width and my left piston is right on (about .02mm difference) and I'll get stock sized rings for it, but my right is on the border. My clymer says if its .1mm or more difference it needs to be corrected with a 1st over piston ring set. The difference on my right cylinder is about .14mm. Can I just switch the pistons? That would put both sides in the zone for buying stock sized rings.

Also check out the photos, the right piston has a little vertical scoring, and was much harder to clean (still doesn't look as clean on top as the left does). Is that anything to worry about?

 

[andrsn]

Also, I try to buy quality tools when it counts (the welder isn't mine and HF screwdrivers are great for prying on stuff). But I couldn't resist going with my room mate this last weekend, and I bought their 15.00 valve compressor and it worked awesome, I was gonna buy the MikesXS one for 30 (probably rules too), but I'm glad I tired the HF one first.

 

[gggGary]

Guess it's up to you, rebuilding to minimum specs isn't exactly confidence inspiring. If it's going to be a bar hopper so what, get r running. If you are expecting to spend serious handlebar time on this thing then an oversize and all new parts are the way to go. Get it all built see how it runs and go further on internal parts if it needs it.

 

[XSLeo]

Finding a standard set of rings might be tough. Most retailers start with first over, .25 mm. You can gap the oversize rings to fit.
I might just go ahead and get first or second over size pistons and rings and get the cylinders bored to match.
The local speed shop bored a set for me at $35 per hole.

 

[andrsn]

I've decided to get the cylinders bored and go with 1st over piston/rings. I want to ride the bike up to Canada in the spring so I may as well do it right, I rechecked the measurements and they are both a little off (and the compression was really bad 20psi before I took things apart).

Another question: I don't want to split my case and I don't think I need to but... The clutch rod doesn't seem to move much when I push on it, should it move? I can shift the gears fine whether or not the clutch rod is pushed in or not. How can I test to see if my clutch is working properly without having the motor running?

 

[gggGary]

Hmm put a rod through the con rod top ends support it on wood blocks and try and kick it over by foot, It should only allow the kick starter to "slip" when the clutch lever is pulled. Don't over do the pressure on the kick lever. That's just an idea.

Doing a first overbore sounds like an excellent plan.

 

[TwoJugs]

If you don't see any signs of bottom end trouble (metal in oil, sloppy rods at crank, trans not catching all gears) then I would leave it alone. They are pretty bullet proof. Clean out the insides while you have the sump filter out and trans drain plug removed. I used mineral spirits in a mustard bottle to flush anything out from the crankcase. Be careful prying off any stuck covers. The sealing surface on the clutch cover in minimal and any dents or gouges will give you a leaker. I find the dowl pins to be stickers. A heavy rawhide or rubber mallet rapped in the area of the dowls in the motion you want the cases to go will usually help the move begin. If you need to pry use a sharpened piece of hardwood. Less chance of metal damage.

The bore job will satisfy your coulda woulda fears. With 20 psi compression look into the valve seat area too. Most likiely where you were losing it.

 

[XSLeo]

Yep, at least lap the valves, new valve seals.
If you can push the clutch push rod in by hand, I don't want to shake hands with you.
That push rod pushes the pressure plate out, there are 6 50+ lb springs pusing it in. So if you can push that rod with over 300 pounds of force, then your one strong sob. On stick covers if you can get it a bit away from the case, slip a putty knife in the gap. Slide the blade over toward the closed end. One at the top and one at the bottom. Don't use the putty knife to pry with, just hold it and push the cover back on this will lever the other end away from the case. The width of the putty knife blade will prevent dings in the case or cover.
If it still won't come loose use a second putty knife over the first one, doubling the thickness.
I have pieces of steel banding about 2" wide and about 1/32' thick I use. I have pieces cut from about 2" to about 4" long. Very handy to have around.

 

[andrsn]

I've got all the covers off alright, thanks for all the advice.

When I grab the clutch cable and pull on it, it doesn't seem to do anything. Is that normal because of those springs TwoJugs mentioned? Wherever I shift the transmission the kickstarter wants to turn the engine over. It sounds like its shifting gear, but nothing seems to change.

Maybe I'll just put it back together with a proper clutch lever set up and see what happens. The bike was crashed, but it seems unlikely that it would be able to seriously damage any of the internals.

I was gonna order 1st oversized pistons/rings from mike's but they're all out, anyone know another place to get them?

 

[XSLeo]

If you have the left cover off. You can unhook the clutch cable from both the lever on the handle bar and on the worm screw in the cover. The inner cable should slide easily in and out of the housing. If it sldes ok I would lube the cable.
I like to get some aluminum kitchen foil to make a funnel around the upper end of the cable. I then tie the cable up so I can fill the funnel with oil. I like 3in1 oil. Some like motor oil. Fill the funnel, work the inner cable in and out of the housing, refdill the funnel, go do something else, like take the worm screw apart, clean, inspect for cracks in the plastic part, regrease, reassemble. Make sure the ball is in the wrom screw. After awhile check the funnel, work the cable in and out, refill funnel. Eventually oil will come out the lower end of the cable. Now hokk the cable back too the woprm screw lever and the handle bar lever. Loosen the adjuster on the handle bar lever so there is plenty of slack. When you put the cover back on the engine you can properly adjust the clutch.
It's easy. On the cover there is a round chrome cap. pop this cap off. Under it is an adjuster, This adjuster adjusts the freeplay between the pressure plate and adjuster screw. To adjust loosen the lock nut, it may be tight. Once the nut is loose back it off a few turns. Now using a screw driver back the screw off, turn the screw in until you just barely feel resistance. Do this several tiomes to get a good feel of just when the screw gets resistance. When you just feel resistance back the screw out 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I use the flats on the lock nut. Back off one flat. While holding the screw snug the lock nut down. Now at the handle bar lever tighten the adjuster to get 1/8 of free play.
Now try the clutch, It should pull smoothly and release with a bit of snap. It may feel hard to pull at first, you'll get used to it.
If you want to check the shifting, with the bike on the center stand turn the rear wheel forward, as you turn the wheel try shifting. It should shift up and down through the gears without much trouble as long as you keep the wheel turning.
The kick start works through the transmission and the clutch. If you puul the clutch lever in the kickstart won't turn the engine.
The electric starter works directly on the crank so it will work with the clutch pulled or not.

 

[andrsn]

Thanks for the ideas. The engine isn't in the bike so I can't spin the rear wheel, but I can just rotate the sprocket. There is no proper clutch cable because it was completely rusted and half broken, I'll rig up a bicycle lever and cable to try and diagnose it tonight. I'll check the worm screw too.

I'll just keep playing with it, it sounds alright so I'm not too worried about it but I'd like to make sure before I put the top end back together.

 

[andrsn]

Started cleaning my valves.... There is a lot of pitting on the top and bottom of the valves, the seating area looks pretty clean and shiny. Check out the pics. Does all that pitting matter, they're straight.

 

[TwoJugs]

Looks like many others Ive seen. If you have a glass bead set up it will take care of it quick. Get some lapping compund and a stick and go to work.With the pits it is hard getting the suction cup to hold the valve. try using water on the cup. I turn the head with the chambers up and push the vales in by hand. Once lapped then fill it with fluid, it worked out great in the parts washing tank. If the fuild stays in the chamber a while without running out past the valves then you should have a good enough seal to get good compression when together.

 

[XSLeo]

Pitting on the valve won't hurt things to much. Pitting where the valve sets on the seats will be a problem. Lapping them will take care of the oitting of the valve and seat. A nice even grey with no dark spots at the seating area of the valve and seat is what you try to get.
It looks like that valve is worn enough so lapping them may not be enough. Might want to take them to a machine shop that does valve work and get thier opinion.

 

[andrsn]

While I'm waiting for my cylinders to get back from the engine machine shop, I've been cleaning and prepping the frame. I really like the way the frame looks without paint. What should I do to protect it from rusting. Anyone have a good clear coat recommendation?

Thanks.

 

[TwoJugs]

Best to prime and paint the frame. I hear that the still will still rust eventually with clear coat. 2 part clear is much better then 1 shot out of the can. Try painting it an aluminum color like the dirt tracker and lots of vintage dirt bikes have.

 

[Ironhead]

I did the clear thing on my H-D two years ago (2 part) and she looked great for the first year. Now I have some rust coming through, it's my fault because I should have researched a little more,before painting. There is a product by House of Kolor, called Adhereto, (it's a clear primer and adhesion promoter, designed for bare metal clear coating) I picked some up to re-do my frame. Everything I have read or heard says that this will work. Adhereto followed by a good two part clear, I'm going satin this time, the gloss seemed almost too nice looking...

 

[Fraser]

woooooooo !
I'm new as the paint it's self eh !

We had to buy wrenches for our build, never owned any before.

I gotta tell ya man....your wife must be a "dream", bikes in the house, guns yes...bikes no in our house ! I'm pale thinking on your luck eh. hahahahaha

If I knew how to send pics I'd share with ya.

good luck to us eh ?

 

[andrsn]

Been a while since I posted, I've been cleaning my engine stuff and waiting to get things back from then engine rebuilding shop. My next task is to get my chassis rolling, the only obstacle is figuring out the triple tree/bearing situation.

I'm pretty sure my local bearing supply place will have some something that will work, but i don't know what to do about my triple tree/steering shaft problem. My frame has a way shorter headtube than an original xs650. I need the steering stem to be about 2" shorter than stock.

As i can see it, I have two options. 1, I can cut a section of the steering stem out and weld it back together with a pipe in the middle or 2, I can grind the weld off the bottom tree and push the steering stem down to lower it.

I like option 2 better, but what do i do about the tapered part of the steering stem where the race is pressed on?

Any other ideas???