What would cause a stiff clutch hand-lever?

[gggGary]

In your picture of the inside of the LH cover if the clutch lever isn't pulled the cam arm is in the wrong position.

It should look like this

If you start pulling from that angle on the arm you will have a very hard clutch pull........ Sorry i have been working on some other bikes and didn't follow this thread. if you take the cable off does the arm go back to where it should be? if so something is wrong somewhere in the cable. is the cable ferrule fully inserted in the chrome elbow at the clutch cover end?

 

[gggGary]

You might want to hold off on removing that clutch cover if I'm not too late. They can be a bugger. On really stuck ones it seems there is one spot where you can pry the cover loose a bit (somewhere towards the rear) then insert thin blades (like a putty knife) as far along the gasket as you can. Then tap the separated area with a rubber mallet, the putty knife blade will act as a fulcrum and loosen more cover you may have to repeat a time or two.

You do know there is motor oil in that cover and it's going to dump out on the floor?

 

[freddy3]

In your picture of the inside of the LH cover if the clutch lever isn't pulled the cam arm is in the wrong position.
It should look like this
If you start pulling from that angle on the arm you will have a very hard clutch pull........ Sorry i have been working on some other bikes and didn't follow this thread. if you take the cable off does the arm go back to where it should be? if so something is wrong somewhere in the cable. is the cable ferrule fully inserted in the chrome elbow at the clutch cover end?

The tensioner at the hand-lever was adjusted when I took that photo. Although I don't have a photo showing the tensioner's position with the cable free/loose, I can say that it moves to the same position your is when the cable's removed. So I don't think that's the problem. But I definitely appreciate your pointing this out. I would've been NICE if that'd been the problem, so I could avoid having to pull the side cover.
In any case, I bought a new tensioner ass'y from MikesXS, which I'll install after I finish the clutch.

You might want to hold off on removing that clutch cover if I'm not too late. They can be a bugger. On really stuck ones it seems there is one spot where you can pry the cover loose a bit (somewhere towards the rear) then insert thin blades (like a putty knife) as far along the gasket as you can. Then tap the separated area with a rubber mallet, the putty knife blade will act as a fulcrum and loosen more cover you may have to repeat a time or two.

I'll bring a putty knife (along with the rubber mallet) with me tomorrow.

You do know there is motor oil in that cover and it's going to dump out on the floor?

Yes. The first thing I did was drain the oil.
Thank you.

 

[gggGary]

I still am very suspicious of the cable. or something in the adjustments being wrong. That position has you well past the leverage sweet spot before the clutch has started moving. There just isn't enough leverage to pull the clutch if you are starting there. Does this bike have the two piece push rod, is the middle ball bearing in place? Something is nagging at me that I have been through this once and the problem was NOT the clutch.

 

[yamaman]

I agree Gary, a tough pull is usualy a left side issue. The op says it was getting tough before the new cable. Also the grooved basket I mentioned, in my experience, causes drama engaging more so than disengaging. Though it would be possible I should think. I guess a crap thrust bearing could also cause it. I'm guessing with the pic, the side cover is hanging with pressure on the cable. Also note that the new clutch pack will be different to the original due to year changes.

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[DanW]

While your checking the clutch screw--get some PB Blaster from any hardware store and keep apply it to the gasket seal several times a day (may take a few days). I had the same problem getting my clutch case off and this (coupled with a rubber mallet) was the only way she came off---heat gun & torch didn't work. If it turns out you don't need to take the case off--you'll be ready for next time.

 

[freddy3]

I still am very suspicious of the cable. or something in the adjustments being wrong. That position has you well past the leverage sweet spot before the clutch has started moving. There just isn't enough leverage to pull the clutch if you are starting there. Does this bike have the two piece push rod, is the middle ball bearing in place? Something is nagging at me that I have been through this once and the problem was NOT the clutch.

It looks like a single-piece push rod:

I had the push rod out a couple of days ago when I took those photos of the inside of the left-side cover and it was straight, smooth and slid in-and-out of the case without any problem.

I agree Gary, a tough pull is usualy a left side issue. The op says it was getting tough before the new cable.

Yes, exactly. The firm clutch hand-lever began shortly after I took the bike out a couple weekends ago. At the time, the cable was about a year old and I hadn't lubricated it for about a year, which is why I reckoned it got stiff and, then, broke. So I fit a new cable, but it was just as stiff as the last one (just before it broke), which is why the problem can't be the cable.
I agree that it'd make more sense for this being caused by something on the left side. But, since the cable feels perfectly normal (easy to pull) with the left-side cover off the engine and begins to tighten as I screw the cover down, it seems like the only thing left is the clutch or something else related to it on the right side. No?

Also note that the new clutch pack will be different to the original due to year changes.

Yes, that kinda worries me, too. If I change the OEM clutch, I'll be upgrading the springs to slightly stiffer Versah springs and adding an additional friction and steel plate. So if it isn't the clutch, I'm gonna end up with an even stiffer hand-lever.

Although I've done it already, should I try replacing the cable (I bought two of them) and readjusting the worm gear again?

While your checking the clutch screw--get some PB Blaster from any hardware store and keep apply it to the gasket seal several times a day (may take a few days). I had the same problem getting my clutch case off and this (coupled with a rubber mallet) was the only way she came off---heat gun & torch didn't work. If it turns out you don't need to take the case off--you'll be ready for next time.

What is PB Blaster?

 

[weekendrider]

PB Blaster is oil in an aerosol can. Think WD40.
It is for people whos fingers can't operate an oil can trigger.

Chances are if you are careful you will be able to reuse the case gasket.
One of mine has been off and on 5-6 times since the new year.
Still no leakage problem. I wouldn't pry, just keep bumping it with the mallet around
the outside. But before you bump (or pry if inclined) check for another bolt in the case you only have 9 on the ground. Also pay attention to the ones with copper washers(4) they go below the oil level which will be the 3 in a line across the bottom and the last one going above the line of the 3 at the front

In your pic of the tach cable you only have to unscrew the cap. The bolt secures the the gear drive in the hole.

I would suggest getting the exhaust out of the way and brake pedal.
As you've probably found out the clamp of the kick start and brake pedal needs to be spread alittle for easy removal. When I was younger I would have grabbed any ole straight screw driver and hammered it in. I've found a stiff bladed putty knife is a better way. It spreads all the way across but you aren't fighting the "wedge" of a screwdriver.
I've included a pic of the putty knife in the kick lever.

Like you I think your problem is after the rachet. On the placement of your rachet looks fine to me. You have to raise it some to hook the cable up and it only hangs that low with the cable undone. ime.

The hammered impact driver. Goggle hand held impact driver. Sears has a couple of nice models. The problem with an HF impact is the machining is very poor and the operation is
rough.

 

[yamaman]

You say that the clutch gets hard as you are doing up the cover, this worries me. Check what Gary said. If thats good loosen the cable from the lever fully and back the adjuster right off on the case (keep a little tension on the cable with your hand to stop it falling off the actuator). Then fit the cover fully with all the bolts (watch out for your altenator wires) then softly softly adjust up at the side cover till its right then finaly adjust any slack at the lever. I know we've been through this before, but there is something up!

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[DanW]

PB Blaster is NOT oil in an aerosol can. It's a penetrant lubricant which when applied to the clutch case gasket--the gasket will eventually absorb it and make it easier to take off. You could pour oil on there all year long and I doubt it would make a difference. PB blaster was recommended to me on this site and I can say with certainty---it worked for me.

 

[weekendrider]

Glad it works for you.
Please refer to the MSDS.
The %'s are heavy and light distillates.
There are alot of personal perferences here and all I suppose work for that person suggesting them.
But I would ask this question. If you were soaking dry clutch plates would you soak them in oil or spray with PB Blaster?

 

[freddy3]

Chances are if you are careful you will be able to reuse the case gasket.

So I don't need to apply any gasket seal to the gasket when refitting the side cover??

But before you bump (or pry if inclined) check for another bolt in the case you only have 9 on the ground. Also pay attention to the ones with copper washers(4) they go below the oil level which will be the 3 in a line across the bottom and the last one going above the line of the 3 at the front
In your pic of the tach cable you only have to unscrew the cap. The bolt secures the the gear drive in the hole.

Odd? Except for the oil filter cover, those were all the bolts in the side cover. I checked it a number of times. And there were only two with washers and those very definitely came outta the far right-hand side, not the bottom. Still, what you said about those bolts being below the oil level makes sense. Maybe I'll see about getting some copper washers from a hardware store and put them on the bottom bolts.

I would suggest getting the exhaust out of the way and brake pedal.
As you've probably found out the clamp of the kick start and brake pedal needs to be spread alittle for easy removal. When I was younger I would have grabbed any ole straight screw driver and hammered it in. I've found a stiff bladed putty knife is a better way. It spreads all the way across but you aren't fighting the "wedge" of a screwdriver.
I've included a pic of the putty knife in the kick lever.

Thanks for the pics, but the kick-start pedal came off (without any problem after I removed the locking bolt) yesterday. The brake pedal shouldn't be a problem either, but those header pipes are a pain-in-the-neck to r&r. Ugh!

The hammered impact driver. Goggle hand held impact driver. Sears has a couple of nice models. The problem with an HF impact is the machining is very poor and the operation is rough.

I got the hammered impact driver at Sears yesterday, but what is an "HF impact"?? Is that another name for the hammered impact driver or something else?

You say that the clutch gets hard as you are doing up the cover, this worries me. Check what Gary said. If thats good loosen the cable from the lever fully and back the adjuster right off on the case (keep a little tension on the cable with your hand to stop it falling off the actuator). Then fit the cover fully with all the bolts (watch out for your altenator wires) then softly softly adjust up at the side cover till its right then finaly adjust any slack at the lever. I know we've been through this before, but there is something up!

Considering how much more of the bike I've gotta disassemble before I even reach the clutch, I think I'm gonna try starting from scratch with another new clutch cable.

Let me know if this sounds correct:
1) I'll remove the current new cable.
2) Adjust the screw adjuster on the hand-lever all the way in (i.e., in the position that releases all tension on the cable (when fitted)).
3) With the cable off the bike and the hand-lever adjustment all the way in, I'll loosen the lock nut on the worm gear, turn the center screw in (gently) 'til it bottoms. Then, back it out 1/4 turn and tighten the lock nut.
4) Install new clutch cable, reinstall side cover (with all side cover screws tightened) and check hand-lever tension, which should be loose since the adjuster's still all the way in (no tension).
5) Adjust the hand-lever tensioner until I have the spec'd free-play in the hand-lever and check the hand-lever operation.

PB Blaster is NOT oil in an aerosol can. It's a penetrant lubricant which when applied to the clutch case gasket--the gasket will eventually absorb it and make it easier to take off.

I think weekendrider's got it right. From your description, PB Blaster sounds like WD40, the original penetrating oil. But thanks for the tip just the same.

 

[5twins]

You can't set the worm gear adjustment with the cover off the bike, it needs to be installed. If that's how you have been setting it then it's probably adjusted way too tight which would explain why the clutch lever gets so stiff as you tighten the cover down. It's attempting to disengage the clutch as you install it.

Use no sealer on the new gasket. I oil mine with motor oil. That keeps the gasket from sticking and allows the part to be easily removed in the future. The copper washers sometimes remain stuck on the case.

HF is Harbor Freight, that big tool place. Do you live under a rock or something?

 

[freddy3]

You can't set the worm gear adjustment with the cover off the bike, it needs to be installed. If that's how you have been setting it then it's probably adjusted way too tight which would explain why the clutch lever gets so stiff as you tighten the cover down. It's attempting to disengage the clutch as you install it.

I've always adjusted the worm gear with the cover installed and the tensioner screwed all the way down (no tension on the cable), as per step 5 above. Have I been doing that wrong all these years?

Use no sealer on the new gasket. I oil mine with motor oil. That keeps the gasket from sticking and allows the part to be easily removed in the future.

Makes sense.

HF is Harbor Freight, that big tool place. Do you live under a rock or something?

I've never bought anything from HF, which is one of the reasons I didn't recognize the initials. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[weekendrider]

HF = Harbor Freight. Northern tools is about the same.imo

Here is the schematic for your cover.
You will have 4 #4's (same length)
5 #6's (same length)
1 #5 (this one is different)
The copper washers are the #10's(4).
Now which one(bolt) is missing?
I'm thinking #5, look in the case.
The bolts to keep the oil strainer cover(2) on don't count.
If you say the case holes (10) are empty well......you are my eyes so we will go with that.

You adjustment technic is correct. Again this is a "It works best for me" situation.
I feel a quarter back is too much and use an eighth turn off bottom.

 

[freddy3]

weekendrider: I'm only counting nine bolts. There's a 10th in the diagram, but I think that's one of the oil filter cover bolts, which you said doesn't hold the side cover in place.
You can see eight bolt holes in the photo, the ninth is about half way along the bottom, which is obscured due to the camera angle.

The brake pedal looks like it'll need to come off, but I don't see where the exhaust header tube would interfere with my sliding the side cover off?

 

[5twins]

Sorry, I misread "cable off" as "case off". You're adjusting correctly. As mentioned, there are 10 screws in the cover. You appear to have missed one of the short 25mm ones. Here's a list with lengths and locations, also the copper washer placement .....

 

[5twins]

There are 2 screws in that area obscured by your camera angle, both short 25mm long ones.

 

[weekendrider]

The tenth is next to the nineth. Or there are two between the hole next to the brake and the one at 5 o'clock off the oil strainer cover.
Said another way is there are 3 bolt holes on the bottom in a straight line.

You don't have to take the exhaust off (I guess) but it sure would be easier in the long run. You will want this to be easy right? Isn't the battle hard enough without making it harder?
You can change the sump on the 82-83 without dropping the side stand but it is so much easier with the sidestand off (an analogue).

 

[weekendrider]

If fast typing were a gun fight you got me 5twins.