Which Oil Seal: Starter Motor & Reduction Gears

[YL82]

I have refurbished my Starter Motor and am ready to re-install into Reduction Gear opening, tighten 4 Bolts, hookup cable to solenoid, etc.

I have the original oil seal that was between the hole to the Reduction Gears where Starter Motor Shaft goes. It's got some wear on it, so I plan to replace, but I'm not sure which oil seal I need.

I had considered just putting back in the oil seal that came out (have decided against that), but I'm not sure what the proper way it is supposed to be inserted (either over starter shaft cowl or in face of reduction gear opening).

One side of the oil seal is hard rubber (with circular spring in center) while the other side has a rubber lip. Please take a look at image - which way does seal face? I'm assuming a new seal with look similar to my damaged one...

Part Number that I need (OEM and Mikesxs)?

In the one image, I have my worn oil seal fit over the starter motor where shaft comes out - of course I'm not sure whether its facing the right way...

Thanks!

 

[retiredgentleman]

I have refurbished my Starter Motor and am ready to re-install into Reduction Gear opening, tighten 4 Bolts, hookup cable to solenoid, etc.

I have the original oil seal that was between the hole to the Reduction Gears where Starter Motor Shaft goes. It's got some wear on it, so I plan to replace, but I'm not sure which oil seal I need.

I had considered just putting back in the oil seal that came out (have decided against that), but I'm not sure what the proper way it is supposed to be inserted (either over starter shaft cowl or in face of reduction gear opening).

One side of the oil seal is hard rubber (with circular spring in center) while the other side has a rubber lip. Please take a look at image - which way does seal face? I'm assuming a new seal with look similar to my damaged one...

Part Number that I need (OEM and Mikesxs)?

In the one image, I have my worn oil seal fit over the starter motor where shaft comes out - of course I'm not sure whether its facing the right way...

Thanks!

Here's some pics of how my oil seal was installed. I applied some 3bond 1104 to the outside of the seal and inserted it into the engine case. I immediately inserted the starter motor to use as an alinement tool to get the seal oriented correctly. I removed the starter motor, and made the final installation after the engine was in the frame.

I bought the 10 seal package from Mikesxs...............#01-9010.

 

[YL82]

Your 2nd image looks to me like the firmer side goes into the reduction gears and the softer rubber lip (or whatever) faces the starter motor.

Speaking of installation attempts, I was lying on my back with bike on sidestand leaned over to left and I was doing good to hold onto the heavy starter while trying to maneuver it into position. I've read that one must ensure that the starter motor shaft teeth have to properly engage the reduction gears. Seems to be easier said than done. I'm going to have to jack up my bike somehow for better visibility/leverage...

Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking I need Mikesxs Part# 01-9022 (OEM# 93102-34095-00), but I'm guessing.

 

[5twins]

Install the starter before you put the reduction gears in. Use the starter to install the seal. Yes, the lip on the seal faces out towards the starter. Slip the new seal on your starter and use the starter to push it into place. Leave the starter in and bolt it in place.

 

[YL82]

I haven't pulled the gears. I only pulled out the starter motor to deal with electrical issues.

Do I need to open the other end and remove the reduction gears in order to properly set the seal and get the starter shaft engaged with the gears? How much trouble is that? (I.e., never done that before).

Thanks, 5twins.

 

[5twins]

Yes, you should remove the little gear cover. The gear that ties the starter to the shaft that runs across the engine pulls right out. It's on a stubby little shaft that will also pull right out. With the cover removed, you can observe your seal install and be sure it's in right.

 

[YL82]

Looks like I may need to remove my left crankcase cover, footrest, shifter, etc to get a good look at the Gear cover...?

 

[rebel542]

I agree with 5twins. You should remove the cover to install the seal. It will be much easier.

 

[YL82]

That's what I will do. I will remove the cover.

"So let it be written, so let it be done" - Pharaoh.

Thanks!!

 

[YL82]

I am close to having the reduction gear cover off, but the Chain Guide is preventing removal.

Does the Chain Guide simply slip off of Shift Shaft or is it secured from behind by below referenced parts?

On the parts diagram, I see a number of parts such as: washer, circlip, oil seal, etc.

Do all of these parts have to be removed in order to get the gear cover off?

 

[rebel542]

Those parts do not have to be removed to remove the guide. To the rear of the shift shaft there is a 12mm head nut that has the guide fastened to the cases. You can clearly see it in your exploded view. One tab turns down which you have taken care of and the other is flat to the guide and goes in toward the engine. You may have to loosen the chain or stick a screwdriver under the chain at the guide to lift it off the guide then pull straight out. Hope this helps.

 

[5twins]

You've removed the bolt, now you just need to loosen the nut at the upper rear (not remove) .....

 

[YL82]

Located and loosend 12mm Nut.

It was hiding behind the heavy cable from alternator/stator.

Assuming I install a new gear crank cover gasket after cleaning up the gummed up sealing surfaces, do I need to apply some type of gasket sealant?

When I turned the cover over (while spraying it with cleaner), the gear slipped off. I later recalled seeing a wave washer and I eventually found it lying in on my garage floor. Where does the wave washer go? Between what and what?

Not sure, but the wave washer appears (from parts diagram) to go underneath the collar against the inner cover, right?

 

[5twins]

Yes, you can see it in my 1st pic above. I use no sealer on the new gasket, just wet it down with motor oil and torque the cover bolts to 80 in/lbs.

 

[YL82]

Will do. Thanks, kindly, Sir!

I've got to remember to insert that new oil seal on the other side along with the Starter Motor - the whole point in removing the cover & gears in the first place!

 

[YL82]

Those parts do not have to be removed to remove the guide. To the rear of the shift shaft there is a 12mm head nut that has the guide fastened to the cases. You can clearly see it in your exploded view. One tab turns down which you have taken care of and the other is flat to the guide and goes in toward the engine. You may have to loosen the chain or stick a screwdriver under the chain at the guide to lift it off the guide then pull straight out. Hope this helps.

Hey, rebel542 - You need to get that post count up, Bro! You helped me out by identifying the root of my wire harness BBQ by nailing my improper grounding problem at the battery box and on this starter gear issue.

With my frequent public display of mechanical and electrical incompetence (I'm learning, though!), your post count will no doubt increase.

BTW, I've grounded to frame under my seat. I may shoot you a post (on other thread) with pic to see if its a good place...

 

[rebel542]

Glad I could help. That ground point should be behind the battery box on the frame. It's on the throttle side, 6mm. Another thing. If you really aren't up to wire harness surgery look on ebay or Mikes to find a wire harness. Tip on installation. As you unplug the old one plug in the new one as you go. That way you will route the harness properly on both sides and hopefully have no issues of chaffed harness. Plug it in and try it. You find OEM parts on ebay sometimes. If not go to mikes. Just make sure you order the right part #. Repairing a burnt harness is like unscrewing your pregnant GF. It can be done but it will be messy and never be the same.
Good Luck,
Lanny

 

[YL82]

Yes, you can see it in my 1st pic above. I use no sealer on the new gasket, just wet it down with motor oil and torque the cover bolts to 80 in/lbs.

I bolted up my gear cover and just cannot get it to seal properly. Its leaking oil despite tightening and re-tightening the bolts. Sure as hell do not want to overtorque & strip threads.

I think that I'm going to have to drain the oil again and apply an adhesive sealant.

I installed an old OEM gasket that is asbestos containing that I recently bought from NW Vintage Cycle Parts.

I have a newer OEM gasket that I got from my local Yamaha shop that I may have to use instead. May have to try a Mikesxs gasket, although I think some sealant or gasket sealer or whatever will do the trick.

To remove the old asbestos gasket (which was a bitch), I had to use some paint stripper gel (contains methylene chloride, which is an ingredient in gasket removers), then use a razor blade to scrape off majority. Then I had to lightly sand off the residual as best as I could. Hopefully, I didn't mess up the sealing surface by creating uneven surfaces. Don't think I did.

Advice on achieving a tight seal?

 

[retiredgentleman]

They are designed to seal with a gasket only. If your surfaces are clean and straight, they will seal. Do not over torque. I replaced that gasket about 5 years ago, and mine does not leak.

 

[YL82]

I know what the problem is....

When re-installing the gear parts, I incorrectly put the collar (#16) onto the shaft behind the gear (between #22 and #21). Looking at the diagrams, the collar obviously should have gone between the gear and wave washer.



I'll have to start over and will update on whether I achieve a good seal. Just hope I didn't foul up threads, etc. by incorrect part re-assembly.

Starting to think that my recurring F__k Ups are a public service by showing folks what NOT to do....

Update: Reinstalled parts correctly, used newer type OEM and yes, I applied a schtickle of lightly-applied gasket sealer on both sides of the gasket to make damn sure I was going to get a good seal. NO LEAKS....

Image shows the indentations (from gear screws) that result from inserting the collar in the wrong place....