Who Rode Today?

How did you go about lowering your compression? Did you use the 2 gasket trick or change pistons? Shorter rods? Head work?

And how do you like the lower compression engine? I've been thinking about building one myself.

Did the double head gasket trick along with xsjohn tweaking the cam a couple of degrees....also retarding the pickup a tad. I like it and would do it to another if and when that occurs. Best place for the info would be to go to xsjohns mods. At times John seemed to keep his cards close to his chest, but in the last couple of years he laid them out on the table for all to see. Grosso respecto....
 
Just above 40 here today. I tried a few miles but the wind is gusting so hard I had to bring it home far earlier than I had hoped. Wind is howling outside now. Predicting 19 tomorrow plus wind chill but I know a lot of you will be colder.

Tomorrow I won't be riding but I will be picking up an '81 XS a guy gave me last week. I'm thinking I might put those wheels on my '83 and go tubeless.
 
Did the double head gasket trick along with xsjohn tweaking the cam a couple of degrees....also retarding the pickup a tad. I like it and would do it to another if and when that occurs. Best place for the info would be to go to xsjohns mods. At times John seemed to keep his cards close to his chest, but in the last couple of years he laid them out on the table for all to see. Grosso respecto....

I've probably spent hundreds of hours reading over John's works. Dude knew his stuff.

While it would cost more I'm leaning towards a shorter piston to lower compression. But it's down the road a ways so who knows.
 
I've probably spent hundreds of hours reading over John's works. Dude knew his stuff.

While it would cost more I'm leaning towards a shorter piston to lower compression. But it's down the road a ways so who knows.


I don't know that I was ever 100% on board with xsjohn's lower compression practice (not that it didn't work well, it's just that I grew up learning how to successfully tune around higher compression stuff) but I did admire and respect him and his XS research. I remember him and his contributions to the bike technology from years ago when I was a 650 member prior to this board's birth, and I was very sad when I found out he had passed.

-R
 
I don't know that I was ever 100% on board with xsjohn's lower compression practice (not that it didn't work well, it's just that I grew up learning how to successfully tune around higher compression stuff) but I did admire and respect him and his XS research. I remember him and his contributions to the bike technology from years ago when I was a 650 member prior to this board's birth, and I was very sad when I found out he had passed.

-R

Lowering compression will probably reduce power unless one adds forced induction of some sort. I'm thinking lower compression without the forced induction would make for longer engine life on the crappy gasolines we have these days. I'm more concerned with getting there than getting there fast. Like you I spent most of my life trying to raise compression rates so it's a bit of a twist for me as well.
 
Lowering compression will probably reduce power unless one adds forced induction of some sort. I'm thinking lower compression without the forced induction would make for longer engine life on the crappy gasolines we have these days. I'm more concerned with getting there than getting there fast. Like you I spent most of my life trying to raise compression rates so it's a bit of a twist for me as well.

Oh yeah, I mean, I completely got where John was coming from, and it had to help the engines live longer due to reduced forces and heat, but in nearly all the engines I've built I have been able to very slightly raise compression and adjust the fueling and ignition to make it also work well for the long run. Then again, the bulk of my air cooled engine building experience lies with VW products where air cooling was forced across the jugs and heads at all times. That's just not the way the real world is with most air cooled bikes. IMO, John was doing a good thing for XS engine longevity, but I don't recall my stock 650 ever experiencing any symptoms like it may be running too hot.

-R
 
Oh yeah, I mean, I completely got where John was coming from, and it had to help the engines live longer due to reduced forces and heat, but in nearly all the engines I've built I have been able to very slightly raise compression and adjust the fueling and ignition to make it also work well for the long run. Then again, the bulk of my air cooled engine building experience lies with VW products where air cooling was forced across the jugs and heads at all times. That's just not the way the real world is with most air cooled bikes. IMO, John was doing a good thing for XS engine longevity, but I don't recall my stock 650 ever experiencing any symptoms like it may be running too hot.

-R

Ride down out of the mountains near the end of July. Those 100 degree days can cook most any air cooled bikes-- especially when stuck in city traffic.

I've noticed some newer H-Ds and others now have fans to pull air through their oil coolers. I've thought about doing the same but it first requires a higher output alternator than the stock one I'm running.
 
What was the stock compression ratios on a air cooled VW?
On the earlier models. 70-71-72 they played with the compression ratio. They started with an 8.7 - 1 nd found it to perform well but had excess vibrtion. They cut 1.2 mm off the top of the piston to drop the ratio to 8.1 - 1. This greatly cut vibration without much power loss.
On the later models they adjusted compression ratio until they decided on the 8.4 - 1 they used.
Dropping to 8.1 - 1 won't hurt the power much, seeing as how the gas is nowdays. It can help vibes. With the timing retard the low end torque is increased. The torque increase helps in the rpms the bike runs at much more than the 1 or so HP you loose above 7000 rpms.
Leo
 
What was the stock compression ratios on a air cooled VW?
On the earlier models. 70-71-72 they played with the compression ratio. They started with an 8.7 - 1 nd found it to perform well but had excess vibration. They cut 1.2 mm off the top of the piston to drop the ratio to 8.1 - 1. This greatly cut vibration without much power loss.
On the later models they adjusted compression ratio until they decided on the 8.4 - 1 they used.
Dropping to 8.1 - 1 won't hurt the power much, seeing as how the gas is nowdays. It can help vibes. With the timing retard the low end torque is increased. The torque increase helps in the rpms the bike runs at much more than the 1 or so HP you loose above 7000 rpms.
Leo

Not going to argue with that at all.

VW, like all car manufacturers selling to the US marketplace, was under increased pressure starting around 1968-69 to reduce emissions. The regulations became exponentially more strict in the early to mid 70's causing engineers to scramble with any tools they had to make the cars run leaner and cleaner. By 1975 compression was only 7.4:1 as the first year of the electronic fuel injected Beetles arrived here. Reducing compression was but one of the less expensive methods of allowing them to run leaner, but like all new technology, it's expensive to deploy due to R&D and time constraints required to continuously make improvements. VW struggled with all sorts of problems attempting to stay compliant while supplying the public with a consumer friendly, reliable, product, and so caved to finally a complete departure from air cooled products to the States by 1978. Sales had plummeted on the Beetle with the masses turning strongly to the Far East in search of a "better" peoples' car.

I was working as a VW technician for a major dealer here in the US during those years, and even we were all big eyed with the introduction of the new VW water cooled car lines. It was a strange transition for the seller, the technician, and especially the buyer, as none were quite sure what to make of the new VW's. Even though it seemed like the right thing for VW to do at the time, business was never quite the same after the introduction of the new era, so I ventured off on my own, and continued independently building air cooled engines for VW customers for another decade into the mid 1980's, all the while experimenting with higher compression ratios within the constraints of keeping the engine in one piece. I still have some old, new parts left over to this date, but the world has completely changed, and so I had to follow. I literally went from building high performance, air cooled VW's for the street to helping build blown alcohol, big block Chevy motors for the strip. So... eh... it's all the same, basically. You build to spec for whatever you plan the engine to do for you... run fast, or run forever. I always strived to achieve both, so there are compromises.

Wow, I guess we got way off track here, but it's too cold to go outside!

-R
 
I rode my Honda about 16 miles today. I'm just about ready to drag the XS out into the daylight for the first time in 12 years.

-

i bet that will be a fine day

Well, at least I'll know what I've got to work with, but yeah, it will feel good just to see it freed from storage again. Like an unbroken horse!

Stay tuned!

-R
 
I did.:D


:bike:
 

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Got up to about 60 here too so I got in a few miles. Tomorrow it's supposed to be our first snowfall of the winter so I'm thinking I'll stick an S&S Super on an old Sportster (shifter on the right, pre '75) and see if it will fire up and run. It belongs to a friend-- a barn find that belonged to a relative of his and hasn't been fired up in about 15 years. I just finished cleaning the rust out of the tank a few days ago.
 
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