If you want "slap me in the face" fast from an old bike ride an H2! A piece of crap in anything but a straight line but when it hit the pipe hang on! In that era I greatly preferred my Norton to any of those Japanese bikes though, sniff.
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XS 650 Vs Honda CB 750
- Thread starter Yamaha77
- Start date
Congratulations on getting such a nice example of the genre.
But put me in the camp that says the stock pipes look the best. - If you keep the skinny slip-ons on it, you may want to check whether the jetting in the carbs have to be changed.
But put me in the camp that says the stock pipes look the best. - If you keep the skinny slip-ons on it, you may want to check whether the jetting in the carbs have to be changed.
I always felt that the late '60s Munch Mammoth spearheaded the '70s superbikes.
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-german-motorcycles/clymer-munch-mammoth-zm0z14mazbea.aspx
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-german-motorcycles/clymer-munch-mammoth-zm0z14mazbea.aspx
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
I don't disagree that the consensus is the honda started the superbike craze, but for me the 900 Z1 is what started the craze. That is what I said above.
Kawasaki had a 750 ready to go, when the honda came out they delayed it and upped the size to 900 which came out in 73. .
God i miss riding my beater CB750... I pulled a typical "me" and tore it down to fix something simple, and that was like 7 years ago. even with its unreliable electronics, untuned carbs and dry tires, I threw some clubmans on, a fiberglass cowl seat and it was my time machine cafe racer!!! It had an old rusty MAC 4-1 with no baffle that would deafen you, but man oh man was it fun to kick start and tear up the streets!!!
scott s
XS650 Guru
There are those that would disagree.
You're right about the weight savings, but that's the ONLY advantage the other pipes have. Looks, sound, performance....ALL go to the stock pipes. As well as resale value.
scott s
XS650 Guru
The factory Honda racers all used 4-4 pipes, too.
And this is technically off topic, but the RC166... OMG, if 250cc, six pipes and 18,000 RPM's doesn't give you a boner, you're dead.
And this is technically off topic, but the RC166... OMG, if 250cc, six pipes and 18,000 RPM's doesn't give you a boner, you're dead.
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
2 great post's Scott.
Yamaha77
Banned
I stand by my statement. Cycle World is a niche magazine. Throughout the world, it is acknowledged the 750 changed bikes forever. The Z1 900 didnt.
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
You are right on the bold, and wrong on the underlined.
You guys who weren't around at the time really have little idea of the impact of the CB750. The Z1 came along years later. Kawasaki's first response to the Honda multi was 3 cylinder 2 strokes: the H1 (500 cc.) and later the H2 (750 cc.), and a bit later still Suzuki followed with the GT series 2 stroke triples: the air cooled GT380 and 550 and the water cooled GT750 "water buffalo." Triumph and BSA joined forces on a 3-banger 750; the Rocket III under the BSA label, Trident under Triumph badges. Yamaha dusted off a mid-1950's German design they'd acquired, tweaked it a little, shaved the price point to needle thinness, and brought out the XS650.
True story from my time on a Honda sales floor, circa 1970. A customer came in riding bitch behind his buddy on a Harley XLCH to pick up a new CB750. Of course Harley Boy had to give his friend a bunch of flack about his new Jap bike. (Understand, this was not the current XLCH the guy had; it was the old lean, mean, light XLCH, with magneto ignition and lighting, no battery, and compression that demanded premium gas.) We had a used first year CB750 on the floor that had a rep in the shop for being nasty quick; so I said to Harley Boy "What would you do if I showed you that that Honda right there is so much faster than your Milwaukee boat anchor that it scares you--no playing in traffic, just a straight, clear run down the Interstate?" Answer: "I'd buy the SOB, but it ain't gonna happen." He was yelling by the time I hit 4th, numb halfway through 5th, shaking when he got off.
True story from my time on a Honda sales floor, circa 1970. A customer came in riding bitch behind his buddy on a Harley XLCH to pick up a new CB750. Of course Harley Boy had to give his friend a bunch of flack about his new Jap bike. (Understand, this was not the current XLCH the guy had; it was the old lean, mean, light XLCH, with magneto ignition and lighting, no battery, and compression that demanded premium gas.) We had a used first year CB750 on the floor that had a rep in the shop for being nasty quick; so I said to Harley Boy "What would you do if I showed you that that Honda right there is so much faster than your Milwaukee boat anchor that it scares you--no playing in traffic, just a straight, clear run down the Interstate?" Answer: "I'd buy the SOB, but it ain't gonna happen." He was yelling by the time I hit 4th, numb halfway through 5th, shaking when he got off.
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Yamaha77
Banned
Great story. Theres no denying the 750 had far far far more impact than Kawasaki's Z1. Ironically I just got in from riding my '73 750 and it IS scary lol. I got up to 7k RPMS and chickened out. Maybe tomorrow....
Great article on the Mammoth. Well we will have to agree to disagree on the superbike status. The Z1 broke so many records that stood for many years compared to the 750. Either way they are both great bikes to own and ride.
weaselbeak
XS650 Junkie
The English triples predated the Honda 4, but everyone got enamored counting cylinders. This was the heyday of my youth and regardless of what people think I can attest that the day the 900 Kawasaki landed it was the power bike to have. The Honda was a nice bike but the speed demons rode the 900. I personally was in love with the XS650 (looks and low weight) and the GT750 Water Buffalo. I really wanted that GT750.
We were both in error, weaselbeak. I had to look it up, but both the CB750 and the Brit triples were introduced in 1969.
On the track it wasn't clear who was going to be fastest in 69-72
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/from-the-archives-daytona-1973?image=1
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/from-the-archives-daytona-1973?image=1
Yamaha77
Banned
People are missing the point here. The 750 came out in 1969 and caused such a frenzy that Kawasaki abandoned the bike they were building and decided to one-up the 750. it is THE pivotal bike for all bikes to follow. The 750 is like Jimi Hendrix, the supreme player that all others followed and tried to beat. Thats the fact.
Whatever you may think the Honda 750 was not a FAST bike even in terms of the early 70's. Yes I owned and rode (even track raced one) 5 or 6 of the single cam 750's 71 to 78 including a wheelie king hardtail with straight pipes LOL.
Cycle Magazine list of "Quickie Kings"
From [reply to]a letter asking for a list of the fastest bikes tested over the 1/4 mile;
[up to 1976]
1973 Kawasaki 750 H2----12.28 /110.29---------------------------------------1975 Kawasaki Z1A ------12.37/107.39-----------------------------------------
1973 Kawasaki 903Z1----12.39/110.70-----------------------------------------
1976 Kawasaki KZ900Ltd 12.52/110.29-----------------------------------------
1970 Norton "S"-----------12.69/103.68----------------------------------------- 1970 Dunstall Norton------12.70/102.65---------------------------------------
1973 Triumph Trident------12.72/106.00----------------------------------------
1970 Triumph Trident------12.78/103.92---------------------------------------
J-A-W
Cycle got 12.8 at 99.5 from their 1st roadtest `69 H1.
The best they got out of a `70 750/4 was 12.98 at 102.27. this would be the honda.....
The Honda 750's main claim to fame was RELIABILITY you could get on and expect to roll up 40 to 60,000 miles with little other than oil and tire changes. even though the engine was drooling oil from the head gasket after a couple of years and miles. Note the 500 Kaw was faster than the Honda.
Cycle Magazine list of "Quickie Kings"
From [reply to]a letter asking for a list of the fastest bikes tested over the 1/4 mile;
[up to 1976]
1973 Kawasaki 750 H2----12.28 /110.29---------------------------------------1975 Kawasaki Z1A ------12.37/107.39-----------------------------------------
1973 Kawasaki 903Z1----12.39/110.70-----------------------------------------
1976 Kawasaki KZ900Ltd 12.52/110.29-----------------------------------------
1970 Norton "S"-----------12.69/103.68----------------------------------------- 1970 Dunstall Norton------12.70/102.65---------------------------------------
1973 Triumph Trident------12.72/106.00----------------------------------------
1970 Triumph Trident------12.78/103.92---------------------------------------
J-A-W
Cycle got 12.8 at 99.5 from their 1st roadtest `69 H1.
The best they got out of a `70 750/4 was 12.98 at 102.27. this would be the honda.....
The Honda 750's main claim to fame was RELIABILITY you could get on and expect to roll up 40 to 60,000 miles with little other than oil and tire changes. even though the engine was drooling oil from the head gasket after a couple of years and miles. Note the 500 Kaw was faster than the Honda.
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Yamaha77
Banned
1. Eddie Van Halen plays the guitar at 2000 miles an hour.
2. Jimi was fast too but not as fast as Eddie.
3. I like them both, but who is hailed as THE guitar god of our time?
Jimi.
4. This isnt about speed. Its about the 750 being the first superbike and a template for all to follow.
racerdave
^ Gone not forgotten ^
Agreed cra.z1. Boy would I like to wander in your garage and drool.
Also agree with you yam77. For me though the Z1 was just more of everything and one upped the SOHC750.
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