Yamabond vs Permatex copper spray for head gasket installation

Which method of head gasket installation did you use, and did it fix your oil consumption/smoking?

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Simebone

Simebone

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I have been dealing with high oil consumption and smoking issues that were temporarily stopped by installing a new head gasket. I had installed the gasket dry, however it has now started smoking and drinking oil again. I have a new gasket on order which I plan to install with some form of sealant.

Which method of head gasket installation did you use, and more importantly:
Did it fix your oil consumption/smoking?

1.) Dry

2.) Yamabond or equivalent around the cam tunnel, front of engine, and around the the four outside stud holes on the head and block

3.) 3 Coats of Permatex Copper Spray on both sides of the gasket

4.) Blessed by your favorite wizard or god of choice
 
Thanks for the reply. I had done a rebuild 2 weeks ago replacing most seals north of the cylinders.
The cylinders were clean, with no visible marking and had a compression of 152psi in each cylinder. The cams and lifters were very clean with no visible marks or wear spots. Cleaned valves and checked valve tolerances (spring length, shaft etc). I cleaned everything up and replaced the valve stem seals, cylinder sleeve o-rings (not the valve guide seals) and head gasket.

Afterwords the bike ran very well, and sounded like a new machine until about 200km of riding when it began to smoke on startup and blowing smoke when revved. This is why I think it's my head gasket.

If you think there is something I missed that could be a more likely cause let me know.

I have detailed my progress on my bike here:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/1978-xs650e-shakey-build-log.49365/

I started this thread to come to a decision on how to best reinstall the head gasket.
 
retiredgentleman said:
Dry head gasket may be the problem. Your head gasket may be passing oil from the camchain tunnel into the cylinders. Its highly recommended to use a sealant such as Threebond 1104 or similar on the head gasket. Run a small bead around the camchain tunnel and the 4 outer studs. Put sealant on both sides of gasket.
I suspect your plugs turn black very quickly.

I had the same problem about 9 years ago. I did a top end re-build using Threebond 1104 as mentioned, and my engine has run perfect ever since.
Be sure to use 30 ft-lbs torque on the large studs, and re-torque a couple of times after 100 kms and 200 kms.
Click to expand...
 
I tried the copper spray for the 1st time recently so it's really too early for me to tell yet, but I did like the ease of application compared to the Yamabond. It made the whole gasket rather tacky but not so much so you couldn't easily handle it, and I think it's going to work fine. Besides, the Griz recommends this stuff and I trust his opinion. Apparently he's used it for a long time.

My replacement (Athena) head gasket is starting to leak now after about 10 years. I don't know why, maybe this is S.O.P. for these motors? This is the 1st and only one I've ever owned so I can't say for sure. Had I been riding them since the '70s, maybe I would have a more educated opinion. I do know that most all I run across that haven't had a rebuild recently do appear to have leaking head gaskets.
 
Thanks for the kind words, 5twins; I think you'll like the results. I've used the Permatex copper gasket spray on both fiber and copper head gaskets for years, with no bad outcomes. You'll really like the stuff if the time comes to take the motor apart; it releases as nicely as it seals. Most of the head gasket seeps you'll see are due to OE rubber covered washers and owners not knowing or not taking the trouble to go around the head fasteners with a torque wrench periodically. Re. fiber gaskets--NOS, Vesrah, or Ottoco!
 
grizld1 said:
Thanks for the kind words, 5twins; I think you'll like the results. I've used the Permatex copper gasket spray on both fiber and copper head gaskets for years, with no bad outcomes. You'll really like the stuff if the time comes to take the motor apart; it releases as nicely as it seals. Most of the head gasket seeps you'll see are due to OE rubber covered washers and owners not knowing or not taking the trouble to go around the head fasteners with a torque wrench periodically. Re. fiber gaskets--NOS, Vesrah, or Ottoco!
Click to expand...
5twins said:
I tried the copper spray for the 1st time recently so it's really too early for me to tell yet, but I did like the ease of application compared to the Yamabond. It made the whole gasket rather tacky but not so much so you couldn't easily handle it, and I think it's going to work fine. Besides, the Griz recommends this stuff and I trust his opinion. Apparently he's used it for a long time.

My replacement (Athena) head gasket is starting to leak now after about 10 years. I don't know why, maybe this is S.O.P. for these motors? This is the 1st and only one I've ever owned so I can't say for sure. Had I been riding them since the '70s, maybe I would have a more educated opinion. I do know that most all I run across that haven't had a rebuild recently do appear to have leaking head gaskets.
Click to expand...
retiredgentleman said:
I recommend you do a complete top end re-build, while the engine is out on the bench. Replacing the head gasket is only a partial top end job.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback! I was leaning towards the copper spray as it seems to me that it would be easier to apply.
 
I've used Copper sprey on head gaskets for years myself as well.... never had a problem with it untill trying to get the head off again....
but that is what it's supposed to do ....seal it up good ...and it does ! usually a rubber hammer is enough to get the head loose however.
....
I did not use Copper sprey gasket sealer on my XS650 when I had the head off however as I didn't have any instead sense I was re using the old gasket I used indian head gasket cement and it has no leaks at all that I can tell.... however getting the head off may well be a major problem in the future, but that is to be expected for a good seal !
.....
I never put a head gasket on dry any more.... I know many manuals recommend Dry installation but I have learned from experience that the copper coat sprey is the way to go on ANY HEAD ....and recommend it wholeheartedly.
.....
Bob.......
 
Simebone said:
1.) Dry

2.) Yamabond or equivalent around the cam tunnel, front of engine, and around the the four outside stud holes on the head and block

3.) 3 Coats of Permatex Copper Spray on both sides of the gasket

4.) Blessed by your favorite wizard or god of choice
Click to expand...

Dry, dry, dry. When I was researching I came across an xs650 blog somewhere in the world that said don't use sealer on the cylinder gaskets. It said "I don't care if the person who tells you to use sealer says he rode with Che Guevara." How can you not follow advice like that? It hasn't leaked . I cleaned the surfaces very will with paint stripper. The old kind that burns your hands.

If you want to use sealer, Permatex Motoseal is like Yamabond but a bit thinner with a nice long working time. Available locally. I sealed my cases with it.

I used these gaskets. Absurdly cheap and very rugged. Stock thickness. If I was like ggg or 5T I would buy all he has.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-72-84-Y...d0ff97e01:g:tSMAAOSwFMZWp~Va&autorefresh=true
I re-torqued it once after a few hundred miles but not since. I have a theory that some bikes are just not going to hold the original torque for whatever reason, and if they don't leak but you keep trying to make them hold torque you'll eventually make the gasket useless by crushing the resilience out of it. Just a gut feeling theory.
 
LOL. About a second hand price. That's just an amazing price due to somebody's overstock somewhere in time.
 
HEADS UP BOYS!!! THAT GASKET KIT XJ LINKED TO IS ON SALE 35% OFF FOR THE NEXT COUPLE HOURS.
THAT IS LESS THAN $10 FOR TOP END SET.
 
Re. freeing the cylinder head, use carpenter's shims along the sides between head and cylinder fins. If you tap them in slowly and evenly they'll spread the load along the fins and do no damage. Because force is exerted down as well as up, you'll preserve the base seal as well.
 
Yep, Skull, copper head gaskets on XS650--mine are from Lonnie Visconti at Copper Gaskets Unlimited in Tempe, AZ, holes a tad oversized for 77.5 mm. pistons. MMM also offers copper head and base gaskets for 750 big bore applications at 650 Central.
 
Motosport In Reno was the same way, DRY.... but without the flattening...." they didn't want the liability of the gasket goop !" ?!?!?!
never did figure out what they meant by that ! LOL so I did it the way they wanted ! hehehhe
....
Bob...........
 

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