does a spring seat make a rigid comfortable?

emzdogz said:
it's gonna be different for different people. I know this first hand now, because I just did my first ride on my sprung solo seat, hard-tailed XS. If anything, the back felt "squishy" due to the 5 inch springs - not so much up and down squishy, as the springs are quite stiff, but rather a sort of side to side squishy wallowing. Gonna try 3 inch springs first, before I sh_t-can it for a solid seat like punkskalar has on that sweet bike in his pic.



The other thing is there are several types of springs and set-ups for sprung seats...so if someone had the energy and the funds, you could knock yourself out figuring out/engineering alternatives. I'm intrigued by a couple of bikes I've seen that use a flat bendy piece of steel kind of like a "leaf spring" suspension for the seat.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what they are leaf springs, Some old tractors came out with that set up and some people make their own.

I wonder if the seat mount/hinge point has anything to do with your "Squishy" feel. Some hinges are broader therefore allow less play.
I do remember one build thread saying he had that issue and modded or bushed his.

Others may have suggestions as to what brand or design are butter made than others.
 
This is what testing does. Hardtail, drag bars, forward controls. As you can see, the seat is up farther than most. My arms and legs are in a comfortable angle as to not cause me to be "bent" in half. I can get into an aggresive position quickly if needed and have a great center of gravity. My knees are not so far up into my chest that I can't put my feet down 'cuz they are locked-up. And when I am stopped, I have a good posture position. Not all slumped over. You should never be slumped over, bent, or have your arms/legs in a straight, locked position.
newht1.jpg
 
First of all A CHOP IS A CHOP and that's what you are building. If you want a soft ride trailer it and ride in the car.
I can say that i must have put more miles on a hard tail than most because back in the 70's that was my ride all year long and i put close to 70,000 miles on the bike rebuilt it three times from burnt pistons and NO SPRINGS on SEAT 70 BSA CHOPPED 10" front. I like the ride of the hard tail and i lived in big city's with pot holes big enough to eat the bike but you got to get to work or whatever.
3 or 5 inch springs work nice and the small shocks work good too just the look you want is what you go for. Me my last XS 650 had 5 " springs and solo seat and i rode it like i stole it. YOU GOT TO TRY IT TO LIKE IT!!!
 
you'll get no complaints from me about my hard tail. like someone said, the only hazards come from shitty bumpy roads. other than that, every time someone sits on my bike they say they''re surprised at how comfortable it is.
 
This is a quick way to rate a road to see if it is hardtail suitable. Go down it in a pick-up at about 20-30mph. Now, realize a pick-up has shocks.
There are several roads here I will not ride my bike on due to the lack of maintenance from the state. I don't bounce off or feel unsafe, but it does get annoying having to slow down to go over them (most here are across the entire road, no going around) and having a bump/pothole one after another for a few miles. That sucks.
 
mg4201 said:
well the roads where i live are craptacular due to heavy snow a long winter and lots of salt does this change the equation?
Click to expand...

Not really . Save for one variable . The welds need to be near perfect when expecting out of the ordinary service . Not that anyone would resort to anything than their best work in this area .

I would still like to see some bright and enterprising fabricator whistle up a soft tail clone .
image006.jpg


I'd never own another 'tail , yes I said "another" . I'm not one against them or for them . I'm firmly and repeatedly dead set against yet "another" sacrifice to the ritualistic lord almighty gawd MeeToo .

Far be it for me to tell a guy to put cream in his coffee or take it black . Drink it your way . The same goes for your builds . Have it your way . Just please , for the sake of the bike , the frame , the finite resource that is our XS-TX 650 , try to be somewhat original about it .

Now back on topic ... (yeah right , me on topic ...)
The springs on my seat gave way within less than 1,000 mi resulting in a mid trip modification to rigid seat to go with my rigid frame . This set me just far enough back that I hurt a whole lot in quite a few little spots . I fingered out some kind of support to get me through the trip but by the time several months and a few thousands of miles had gone by I was convinced I had owned my last 'tail .
I have ridden a retrograde Ironhead that belongs to a friend that uses two of the mini ( 7-8" or so) shock absorbers ...
USS56t.jpg


...and a bushed front hinge point . Seat angle and shape was kind of critical . You didn't want it to slide you forward when unloaded but needed a bit of shape and preload to keep you from sliding back . Once figured out I'd have to say this was the hot setup . For this reason and this reason only my full size whiteboard has had a rigid frame drawn on it for the last several months just waiting for the right vintage single to come along looking for a home .

So you waited this long for me to get to the point . "Does a spring seat make a rigid comfortable? No , not really . The small shock absorbers (and careful here to avoid crap impersonating shock absorbers) made a huge difference . Sure the springer out front and the excessive tire width out back made the bike rumble a bit and drift wide in even moderate washboard sweepers but face it , it was a 'tail w/ springer , what would you expect ?

~kop
 
Last year a few of us did a ride, the 3 bikes consisted of a lowered swingarm bike with 11" shock, a stock softail, and a rigid with 3" springs. We did 180miles in a day... pretty decent but not extreme. After 150miles we all looked wrecked, and found it hard to smile. At the end of the day we all hurt equally, and all had the ol' cowboy walk. It sucked, but was awesome at the same time.

Hope this helps.
 
I guess it just matters what you want. A rider or a look. My bike is not some twisted chopper-barhopper. I just like a hardtail look. My favorite hardtails are similar to boardtrackers or a Brough. A flatter, more level top tube frame. Too much work for me to do on a XS frame. And I don't want to sit on my fender. I also like being able to get aggresive if need be, instead of having to lean my whole body in order to maneuver around an obsticle. Being able to throw your bike, quickly, from side to side is a very important.
 
that brings up an interesting point, for me, following my 1st short ride on my chopper this last Sunday, on sprung seat, with bad (and possibly under-inflated rear) tires and squishy brakes all of which made me feel a little uneasy, I have to say one really neat thing.. When I came to the stop sign where the road I was on T's into another small road, I made a tiny u-turn on the chop that I would not have even considered on my Sportster (which has shocks).

Even though the seat situation may not be good, even though the rough road situation may not be good, even though my brakes need to be re-bled, etc etc etc I can already tell: this is one HANDY little bike! When I say "handy" I mean it in the sense that people sometimes say a horse is "handy" if it can turn real quick and short, etc.

At first I thought about it and then my brain just said hell yes you can turn it on this little street. That did make me happy. The other stuff is fixable. I did want a real quick handling bike and this bike is that, even with a couple degrees rake added.

If I can never get this thing to ride well, I won't lie about it - I'll cheerfully admit it... but for now it looks like once the brake/tire/seat and maybe bars issues are worked out, this thing is gonna be a BLAST to ride around town. It felt so great to ride the XS engine again. I REALLY missed it.

Anyway, I know that was a little OT for this thread, but we did end up discussing rigid frame handling overall, not just the seat thing.
:)

Now I guess they use dirt bikes, but what I wanted my bike to sort of resemble was the little old bikes they used to use on the Wall of Death. Like totally stripped Indian Scouts. Of course those weren't raked.....
anyway I had thought the rake was gonna mess up the ability to do slow speed turns, but that's not the case with mine.
 
I likey. I likey a lot.

I took an advanced rider course and they, of course, had a cone slalom. They started with the standard cones in a straight fashion.
--> is bike entrance.

-->
x x x x x

Then staggered them.

-->
x x x
x x x x

Then close stagger.

-->
x x x x
x x x

Then made stage 3 into a corner. So imagine the above close stagger around a corner.

Needless to say, on stage 3 alone, there were several bikes that were not doing very well.
Stage 4....a very few were left. I remember the instructor screaming, "There are more turns then staright-aways in real life people!!!!!"

Then they pulled out this

-->
x I x I x x
x x I x I x

The "I" represents a 2x4 that you had to slow down and ride over before or after a hard turn. And this was all timed. Not too slow and not too fast.

The ability to throw your bike, especially at slow speeds, is quite important.
 
Punkskalar, I notice both your bikes have the footpegs under your body. This allows you to stand before any bumps are hit hard, like going over railroad tracks. It's tough on knees with low seating but saves your back.

Everyone can notice Captain America has forward controls on his Harley. Just like an easy chair. That's back injury city on the frost heave roads up north. Fonda's stock Panhead had a pogo seat before it was ruined. That is a long spring in the "seat post" of the frame. The seat is well forward with the hinge about 1/3rd of the way up the tank. These old Harley's aren't too bad with bumps at lower speeds.

I stand over bumps with all my bikes and recommend the practice highly.

My hope is that some fabricator will realise the market for short struts to repalce the shocks exists and will come out with an inexpensive line of struts of different lengths. This will allow an XS owner to quickly hardtail and lower their XS to the maximum quickly and easily. I have not checked but I bet a strut could be only 9 1/2 inches and the fender would have clearance. I'm very surprised no one has struts for sale.

Tom Graham
 
I mounted my forward controls to the 2 downpipes in front of the engine, right where the 4 holes are.
My seat pivot was mounted to the backbone right before it splits behind the tank.
Bars have a small pullback- but almost straight..

When I sat on the bike, hands on the bars.. As soon as I lifted my legs up to the controls, it was like instant backpain.. Im only 28 yrs old- My back is fine, but it fuckin hurt to bring them up.. I couldnt imagine what it would feel like actually moving..

So, I scrapped the design... Mounted a triangle shaped plate where your ass would go so I could have a universal mounting area for the seat pivot.. Moved the seat back 4-5".

I welded on a loop on the frame in front of the engine to push the forward controls about 4-5" closer to the front wheel..

I dont think the bike could be anymore comfortable to sit on now.. Just feels good.. I have not ridden it yet, but the bench tests seems just right...

Im about 5'10" BTW. :D
 
See, I feel so much more comfortable on my forward controls and drag bars. I will be getting my knees replaced at 35 yrs old and the mid-controls killed them. I mean, literally, after about 30 minutes I could not lift them off the pegs to put them down at a light they hurt so bad. And my bars made the base of my neck lock up too.
BUT, it all matters what you are comfortable with. That's why I tested my seat and bars before commiting to them. I also rode some other peoples bikes that had different set-ups to get a "feel" for them. I had 5 differnet sets of bars on my bike before I stuck with the drag bars. Honestly, I really would not have chose them, but they fit me well.
So sometimes that "look" you are going for may not be the best, or sometimes will be the worst, for your rideability. I've seen so many people say, 'Oh man, I want that. How did you...where did you get...I'm getting...", but never try it first. It could very well be a complete waste of time and money.
My friends Triumph is freaking sick looking. Spool front, lonnnnnggggggg raked front, seat on the fender, total '70's chopper. He hates it. 15K and he can ride for about an hour, then he's done for a while. Mostly the pain of being folded in half, but having to muscle that rail around and crapping his pants everytime he has to make a quick move, or stop (spool front, no brakes) kills him.
 
Guys how about posting some pics of your setups along with your height and weight.
Pic with & without rider.

While the posts are great, I think a lot of us are visual people and will get a better understanding from this added info.
 

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