Dipstick boke; part is "down there"

I have a 77 xs650 that I recently bought, 24k miles, runs ok but has some issues. I checked the oil about a week ago, oil level was good, but dirty. Today I had an acquaintance who does rebuilds for xs and other bikes look it over and we were going over what needs most attention when he asked if I had changed the oil yet; told him I was going to soon. He pulls the dipstick out and it's missing the last 1.5-2"! Broke off...had to have broken off inside, as I know it was there when I checked the oil previously. It surprised me because I didn't feel any resistance when I checked the oil, I inserted the dipstick, went right it, screwed down fine. Can't understand how I managed to snap the end of it off inside.

Now I'm afraid to start it up for fear of that piece metal getting where it shouldn't. I drained the oil, and removed the sump cover/filter and checked the oil that had drained out, no sign of the 2" of dipstick. Put magnetic probe down the add-oil hole, tried the same through the drain plugs, felt around with fingers underneath as far as I could, but I didn't fish anything out.

The guy who was looking at it with me said the next thing would be to remove the electric starter as it covers the lowest part of the engine and it could settle down there. But he mentioned that doing so might require a new seal. After that, he said the right side engine cover could be removed to see if I couldn't access it there.

1. Is the next best step to remove starter as my friends suggests? What will I find behind it? I don't want to buy the service manual quite yet as I'm not sure if this is a bike that I want to keep or not.

2. Would removing the right side engine cover help access? Is there anything tricky about removing it, i.e. removing brake pedal and/or kick starter? If I have to do that, I imagine a new gasket would need to be ordered.

And then...what to do If I simply can't find the piece? Button it all up and assume that it's laying on the bottom of the engine case somewhere and that it won't do any harm?

Thanks for any comments.

No don't remove the starter remove the starter gear case cover behind the LH engine cover



That's the end of the dipstick I circled. That's where it should be, at least if you put it in somewhere near where it was supposed to go..........

The hardest part is getting everything clean BEFORE you open the cover!

Ok, thanks for the info, maybe that's what my friend meant and I didn't hear him correctly. The photo helps as well. I'll give it a go.

Ok, I have the LH engine cover off and I'm trying to remove the starter gear case cover to see if I can't find the broken end of the dipstick. I have the starter gear case cover separated slightly, but the tab in the photo seems to hold the cover in place so that I can't pull it out. Does that tab move? It seems pretty solid.



Is the tab part of the "chain guide plate" (for lack of better word) that covers the shifter? Can that plate slide out along with the tab so that I can remove the cover? In short, how to remove the tab so that I can pull the cover straight off?



Normally I would have a service manual at my side for this, but I'm trying to get to the point where I can decide if I want to keep this bike or not. Thanks for your patience.

There's another bolt (well, nut really) holding that shift shaft guard on that you must loosen to remove it .....

Thanks for the photo and blowup, of course, that last nut was it. There was so much gunk buildup that I couldn't see it. Got it off and...no missing end of dipstick. : (

I drained oil, took off sump filter, explored as best I could with magnetic probe through all openings, reached the starter gear case...no sign of any metal end of dipstick.

What would be the next move...remove right hand engine cover?

I dropped a bolt down the cam chain tunnel once, pulled the forward plug, drained the oil and heard the thump as it landed in the basin.
I believe that in your circumstance that I'd pull both magnet plugs off the bottom and if the piece is not attached to one or the other I'd plug her back up, pour a couple of quarts of kerosine in the crank, cycle the motor carefully with the kicker a few times and drain again. What's odd is loosing the end of the dipstick....I mean, how does that happen?

nj1639 said:

I dropped a bolt down the cam chain tunnel once, pulled the forward plug, drained the oil and heard the thump as it landed in the basin.
I believe that in your circumstance that I'd pull both magnet plugs off the bottom and if the piece is not attached to one or the other I'd plug her back up, pour a couple of quarts of kerosine in the crank, cycle the motor carefully with the kicker a few times and drain again. What's odd is loosing the end of the dipstick....I mean, how does that happen?

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I've already pulled those plugs and the sump cover...nothing. I have no idea how I could have snapped off the dipstick...a week ago I checked the oil level, saw that it was good, put it back in, checked again, so I know I was looking at a complete dipstick with level markings. When my friend pulled it out a couple of days ago, he showed it to me as broken--he says he just pulled it out. I didn't feel any resistance when I inserted it, but can only assume it hit something and snapped off. What, I don't know.

Thanks for the ideas.

This friend of yours couldn't be playing a trick on you since you were thinking tearing it down anyway?

Iowa Mark said:

This friend of yours couldn't be playing a trick on you since you were thinking tearing it down anyway?

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That's the next thought.
I checked a spare engine out in the pole barn that is minus both side covers. There's a channel under where the starter comes in that could flow something over to the other side. Shining a light into that channel and then looking for the light on the clutch side was a no go. Probably drops into the lower case. I'd be flushing her out.

Gonna add that IMHO there's no fucking way to snap a piece off inserting it into it's channel......unless you happen to be a ham fisted king kong moron. Lol

Why don't you take a picture of your dipstick and we can tell you if its full length or not. Also, since you have the starter cover off, if you stick the dipstick in, you will see it pop out just like the pictures here. The other thing is all of the gears are around where the dipstick goes. So if he in fact snapped it off it could have flung someone else. I would recommend SLOWLY rotating the engine by hand and you might get it to drop down if it is stuck.

Iowa Mark said:

This friend of yours couldn't be playing a trick on you since you were thinking tearing it down anyway?

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I said "friend", I should have said acquaintance...he's a 25 something old guy I met via CL because he had a nice XS650 for sale that I was thinking of buying. When I went to look at it, we started talking and he told me he rebuilds xs650s (among other bikes) and I told him about my '77. He said to bring it over and we'd look at a trade/cash for his or he would help me with mine, look it over to see what its main issue were. He had a couple of 650s he was working on, and I'd be lying if I said it never occurred to me that he might have pulled a switcheroo on me--but I didn't want to think that. I wasn't thinking to open the side case--I've only done so to look for the broken end of the dipstick. So if the guy did switch them on me on purpose or even by accident, that would be...something.

nj1639 said:

That's the next thought.
I checked a spare engine out in the pole barn that is minus both side covers. There's a channel under where the starter comes in that could flow something over to the other side. Shining a light into that channel and then looking for the light on the clutch side was a no go. Probably drops into the lower case. I'd be flushing her out.

Gonna add that IMHO there's no fucking way to snap a piece off inserting it into it's channel......unless you happen to be a ham fisted king kong moron. Lol

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Not gonna disagree with you--I very well may be a ham fisted king kong moron

I'm not saying I'm a mechanic, but I've done about 95% of maintenance and repairs for the last 10 years on my Sportster and KLR650--thanks to sites like this one. So I'm not totally new to working on bikes, but I'm certain I put that dipstick in nice and easy, I screwed it down and noticed no resistance, so yeah, I'm shocked I could have snapped it off.

FrkyMnky said:

Why don't you take a picture of your dipstick and we can tell you if its full length or not. Also, since you have the starter cover off, if you stick the dipstick in, you will see it pop out just like the pictures here. The other thing is all of the gears are around where the dipstick goes. So if he in fact snapped it off it could have flung someone else. I would recommend SLOWLY rotating the engine by hand and you might get it to drop down if it is stuck.

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Ok, here's the photo...no add/full level indicator and you can see it's bent a bit at the end.



I've put the dipstick back in with the starter gear cover removed and I know what you're talking about, it should stick out / be visible...but...nada.

I don't have the right side engine cover off yet, but I'm thinking it could be anywhere, maybe laying on the bottom somewhere. I should add... I did ride the bike a bit, a couple of miles at most after I first checked the oil level, presumably with dipstick already damaged--at the time I wasn't aware it was broken off. So the piece should have already settled where it's going to settle. My issue now--is it worth it to keep fishing by removing the right side engine cover, or do I button it up now and since it nothing happened during my short rides of a mile or two, then nothing prolly will??!? Not comforting idea I guess. I suppose I could order a complete gasket set because I need one for left engine cover and now for the starter gear cover as well, a set should have the right side as well. Anything particularly difficult about removing right side engine cover? Fun stuff!

Have you pulled the side strainer/filter? That can be a collector of debris, though small stuff.
Man, I'm tempted to believe that was deliberately broken off. If not then it was eaten up by the gears in the starter section and I would think it would have sounded like a garbage disposal eating a spoon. If you put it back in situ, which way is the bend? Might give a clue as to if it happened down below. I've got 5 engines with dipsticks for all and don't see anything close to that happening. I'm starting to believe there ain't anything in there.

The trick to the right cover is to remember which bolts have the copper washers and then to remove the cover while keeping the shifter shaft from coming off with the cover. Will need a new gasket for the cover if you want to do it right.

You mean the kicker shaft. Hold it in with your thumb while working the cover off.

I've noticed that sometimes the dipstick tends to wonder into a different "hole". That's what your buddy did. Went down where it wasn't supposed to go and he cranked it till it broke. That's why your hands are the only ones that are supposed to touch your machine.

hard_y_rd said:

I've noticed that sometimes the dipstick tends to wonder into a different "hole". That's what your buddy did. Went down where it wasn't supposed to go and he cranked it till it broke. That's why your hands are the only ones that are supposed to touch your machine.

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That's what I supposed had happened to me, but I thought I would have heard something or felt some resistance while tightening it down. If that did happen to him and he didn't fess up, well for me. I'll probably open up the right side, don't know about kerosene flush. If I did manage to snap it off, the bike was run for a few miles and I never heard any gear grinding or anything. If I don't find it from the right side, I think I'll button it up, fill with oil and try it out ever so slowly to begin... and see what happens.

Question: with the left and maybe right side covers off--I will put new gaskets on--is there anything I might look at to see if it needs adjusting or maintaining?

nj1639 said:

Have you pulled the side strainer/filter? That can be a collector of debris, though small stuff.....

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Yes, I checked it and as you say there were some small, very tiny metal flakes...not a huge amount at all. I don't know when the oil was last changed, but it was quite dirty.

I have no idea just how it happened, but you now have a good reason to buy one of Dogbunny's temperature dipsticks.
Leo