Remember, those bore sizes stenciled on the sleeves were the new sizes. Chances are they have worn a bit bigger now. And your pistons may have worn a bit smaller too. Your slightly worn pistons in Daniel's smaller (but maybe worn a little bigger) bores may be just right.
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Mailman’s XS2 a full on restoration
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
That is my hope. I’m going to give them a good cleaning and I’m thinking hit them with the flex hone and then take measurements.
Bob,
When you're at the VW restoration place, ask the how much they want for a set of Porsche valve adjusters. I seem to recall a thread where they were being used on the Xs motor....
When you're at the VW restoration place, ask the how much they want for a set of Porsche valve adjusters. I seem to recall a thread where they were being used on the Xs motor....
Yes, the elephant foot valve adjuster screws were originally sourced from a Porsche, but they're quite expensive for real ones. Most of us use aftermarket VW ones. They don't cost much, if any more than stock replacement screws. Bob, I noticed from your pics that even with low miles, your stock screws already appear to be a little beat up on the tips. I just don't see the point of replacing them with more of the same, it'll just happen all over again.
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Elephant-s-Feet-Valve-Adjusters-8-p/adj-elephants-ft-8.htm
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Elephant-s-Feet-Valve-Adjusters-8-p/adj-elephants-ft-8.htm
Thanks for the link 5Twins, I got a set of VW ones locally and the thread on the shaft was necked (for oil flow I guess). I didn't use them and went for the genuine Porsche ones.
A tuner I use thinks the elephants foot design is great. I was talking to him about these and he went on at length about their virtues.
A tuner I use thinks the elephants foot design is great. I was talking to him about these and he went on at length about their virtues.
Techman
XS650 Member
Industry standards call +.25mm (.010") first over size +.50mm (.020") second oversize +.75mm (.030") third oversize and so on. The Japanese OEM will usually only call out second oversize on the original equipment. In most cases everything over that is aftermarket such as Wiseco, Numura etc.....
Mikes does offer a stock complete cylinder replacement for the 1974 and later models. Stock sleeves are available for dropping in. MikesXS actually offers everything you need for the entire top end build. Good news on the cam by the way
Techman
XS650 Member
Great photos .... You pistons are stock according to the numbers stamped on the top. If they were oversize there would be indications of size. Crosshatch hone marks looks good on the one side. Suggest bore over to the second oversize (.50mm/.020") to ensure removal of the pitting.
No matter HOW "expert" the shop owner is you want to look at the boring machine. Some ancient equipment that works fine with operator skill and a little nudge here and there doing car motors, won't be up to small motorcycle clearances work. You stand a much better chance of quality work at shop with late model tight tolerance machine tools.
I have been out on a ride for the last week and behind on your post. I see that the left cylinder sleeve is not good. Should be able to find a better used one on e-bay. Heat up to drop in and out. I would then use the 2nd oversize piston/rings from Mikes had have the machine shop bore and hone to fit, deck the top and job done. I guess some have had good results with the Cruzinimage pistons. Im pretty sure Mikes are made in Japan and look very good. A good shop should be able to bore and hone for under a few hundred. The 2nd over bore may be enough to take care of the pitting. The machine shop should be able to give you some advice on that.
I just got back my Z1 cylinder with bore and hone for 2nd over and it was about 360
I just got back my Z1 cylinder with bore and hone for 2nd over and it was about 360
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Cleaning gaskets from heads and cylinders and cleaning carbon from pistons and heads IS NO FUN!
Especially wearing one of these when it’s 105 degrees out there!
My asthma has no tolerance for chemical exposure, so I take no chances.
Paint stripper, lacquer thinner, paint thinner, it’s a veritable smorgasbord of crap that can sideline me.
Got the liner removed from Daniels donor cylinder today, thanks Jim for leading the way on that for me!
300 degrees for 30 minutes and just a bump with a hammer and it slid right out. Just as advertised!
Spent the rest of my day cleaning up my cylinder in prep for heating and removing my bad cylinder. So things are moving along, if slowly. Tomorrow I’ll pull the liner out of my cylinder and get everything cleaned up and ready for the swap. Lots more cleaning to do on my head. More quality gas mask time, yay!
Especially wearing one of these when it’s 105 degrees out there!
My asthma has no tolerance for chemical exposure, so I take no chances.
Paint stripper, lacquer thinner, paint thinner, it’s a veritable smorgasbord of crap that can sideline me.
Got the liner removed from Daniels donor cylinder today, thanks Jim for leading the way on that for me!
300 degrees for 30 minutes and just a bump with a hammer and it slid right out. Just as advertised!
Spent the rest of my day cleaning up my cylinder in prep for heating and removing my bad cylinder. So things are moving along, if slowly. Tomorrow I’ll pull the liner out of my cylinder and get everything cleaned up and ready for the swap. Lots more cleaning to do on my head. More quality gas mask time, yay!
This is what came to mind thinking about mailman:
Haha! I know right! I got slimed!!!
Happy to help...
A couple thank yous are in order. First of all Max Pete. I’ll probably embarrass him here. But hey were among friends. Back when I was searching for a seat grab bar for my bike, Robin found one in Canada for me and Pete was the guy who bought it and shipped it to me. Then he wouldn’t allow me to pay him for it. He said he thought my bike needed a little bit of Canada on it.
He’s a good friend and so is Robin. That’s me in front , taking the selfie, with Pete in the background telling us about the size of a fish that got away. The others are AzMan Rudy with his back to us and Daniel black looking on. Thanks Pete!
The other person I want to thank here is my good friend Daniel Black. He has supplied a complete clutch assembly to my build as well as a handlebar switch and just today he wouldn’t let me pay him for the cylinder liner that he donated to my project. He told me just hearing my bike start up would be payment enough. Daniel has not only been a parts resource but also helped me pull my motor and he also inspired me to write my first thread, My 60th birthday present. Thank You Daniel sincerely.
So many of you have helped me source parts, given me technical assistance and more importantly given me the confidence to stretch myself, that when this little red wagon of mine finally hits the road, it truly will be a community bike. Thank you one and all.
He’s a good friend and so is Robin. That’s me in front , taking the selfie, with Pete in the background telling us about the size of a fish that got away. The others are AzMan Rudy with his back to us and Daniel black looking on. Thanks Pete!
The other person I want to thank here is my good friend Daniel Black. He has supplied a complete clutch assembly to my build as well as a handlebar switch and just today he wouldn’t let me pay him for the cylinder liner that he donated to my project. He told me just hearing my bike start up would be payment enough. Daniel has not only been a parts resource but also helped me pull my motor and he also inspired me to write my first thread, My 60th birthday present. Thank You Daniel sincerely.
So many of you have helped me source parts, given me technical assistance and more importantly given me the confidence to stretch myself, that when this little red wagon of mine finally hits the road, it truly will be a community bike. Thank you one and all.
What a cool story Bob. Just shows what an amazing place this is.
The passion all the members share for these bikes and their willingness to go above and beyond to help each other out is truly astounding.
I am constantly flabbergasted at the efforts and time invested by members here over and over again to help someone out.
I have read comments by new members as to how this forum is really different from others.
Evidenced here once again.
Happy to see you're taking precautions to protect your health.
Keep up the great work my friend. We're so thankful you are taking us along for the trip.
The passion all the members share for these bikes and their willingness to go above and beyond to help each other out is truly astounding.
I am constantly flabbergasted at the efforts and time invested by members here over and over again to help someone out.
I have read comments by new members as to how this forum is really different from others.
Evidenced here once again.
Happy to see you're taking precautions to protect your health.
Keep up the great work my friend. We're so thankful you are taking us along for the trip.
...enjoy!
As 2M said earlier - there a lot of other less positive ways of spending money - but this is more fun!
.....besides, GeorgeOC gave me a front fender, Brassneck gave me some fork gaiters, Daniel provided a speedo and an oil pump drive shaft, and other folks have donated other parts to Lucille and the Cafe bike (which, itself originally came from Lakeview).
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...enjoy!
As 2M said earlier - there a lot of other less positive ways of spending money - but this is more fun!
.....besides, GeorgeOC gave me a front fender, Brassneck gave me some fork gaiters and other folks have also donated parts to Lucille and the Cafe bike (which, itself came from Lakeview originally).
Thanks Pete,
It’s quite the circle of friends we have here isn’t it.
You betcha!
Thats probably wishful thinking but you never know. I always hope that I can just hone and put in new rings but something always is out of spec. Good luck. You know if the cylinder to piston clearance is a little large it probably would run fine, im sure there are alot of those on the road. If it was a quick build to sell i may consider doing just that.
This morning I removed the water damaged cylinder liner from my cylinder and got the donor liner cleaned up and ready to install, I also knocked together a little wooden box, similar to the one that Jim made to support my cylinder when I installed the new sleeve.
Before I installed the new donor, I held my original up to its replacement and compared them. You could see with your naked eye that the new one had a thicker lip on the rim. I measured both and it came out to be .3 mm or .0118 inch thicker.
After heating up my cylinder I ran out to the garage with it, dropped it into place and tapped home with a hammer and wooden block, then I stacked everything but the kitchen sink on top of it to hold it down while it cooled.
Here are the results. Replacement is on the right.
The sleeve rotated just slightly when it dropped into place, I checked clearances with the alignment post.
I could not twist it into better position once it dropped into place , it would need to be heated and removed and re installed. But it does have room for the alignment dowel as is.
There is no way around this. The cylinder will need to be machined to be usable.
Before I installed the new donor, I held my original up to its replacement and compared them. You could see with your naked eye that the new one had a thicker lip on the rim. I measured both and it came out to be .3 mm or .0118 inch thicker.
After heating up my cylinder I ran out to the garage with it, dropped it into place and tapped home with a hammer and wooden block, then I stacked everything but the kitchen sink on top of it to hold it down while it cooled.
Here are the results. Replacement is on the right.
The sleeve rotated just slightly when it dropped into place, I checked clearances with the alignment post.
I could not twist it into better position once it dropped into place , it would need to be heated and removed and re installed. But it does have room for the alignment dowel as is.
There is no way around this. The cylinder will need to be machined to be usable.
