My rebuild journey. (old title: Future owner - Help me identify this 650.)

[gggGary]

grinding e-start is a tighten the hair spring repair. BUT good running/starting engines often won't have starter grind.
FIRST steps taken...
I swear those carbs are programmed to let it run for a few seconds/minutes after a layup just to tease you.

 

[Sudonate91]

I'm done for the night. I about caught the bike on fire with my jerry rigged positive extension (used undergauged and it melted). Autozone closes so I can't return this battery until tomorrow.

This is my list of things to do/figure out.

1. Starter works but after it turns over it grinds
2. Clutch works but not well. It needs some tuning because I have to mash it to get it to engage.
3. Get better leg muscles for kicking this bad boy.
4. Get it to run. I can get it to idle on full choke then it dies. Seems like a fuel delivery problem. May need to revisit the carb .
5. Drink a beer

Overall I'm super stoked. I called my wife out to video it the moment it fired. Thank you all for getting me to this point.

This project will continue!

 

[Jan_P]

Thinking out loud here
Might consider to drain out the old oil if not done already before any long runtime
It might not flow as good as one can wish and there are filters that can be clogged.
Needing to be cleaned..
There exists instructions for this and the gentlemen can provide advice
Also take a quick look into the alternator ..so not so many dead mice bees nests spider webs.
In there
Was it not also the cylinder head bolts that should be tightened ASAP

 

[Sudonate91]

Video my wife caught. Tad embarrassed with me attire but hey, covid got my bumming
https://photos.app.goo.gl/b6oiNh4DRPa9LMNW6

 

[gggGary]

Rusted (to death) clutch cable would be my guess. Buy a new Motion pro clutch cable, oil, install. It will greatly improve your life for the princely sum of $15
I have proven many times it's impossible to rescue a rusty cable.

 

[Sudonate91]

Man. Just got inside... Realized I bruised the crap out of my leg from kicking it. I guess with it leaning over on it's stand, I kept thigh punching the bike. Woops.


Also. Is there a way to make the choke stick? It's spring loaded and it's hard to hold the choke AND kick.

 

[Sudonate91]

Thinking out loud here
Might consider to drain out the old oil if not done already before any long runtime
It might not flow as good as one can wish and there are filters that can be clogged.
Needing to be cleaned..
There exists instructions for this and the gentlemen can provide advice
Also take a quick look into the alternator ..so not so many dead mice bees nests spider webs.
In there
Was it not also the cylinder head bolts that should be tightened ASAP

I actually got some oil for it but I didn't commit to changing it until I got it running. Filter wise, these filters get cleaned and not replaced?

 

[Jan_P]

I actually got some oil for it but I didn't commit to changing it until I got it running. Filter wise, these filters get cleaned and not replaced?

Some comments there
http://www.xs650.com/threads/changing-oil-filters.35334/
I have replaced one sump filter in 35 years .It was torn

 

[Sudonate91]

Some comments there
http://www.xs650.com/threads/changing-oil-filters.35334/
I have replaced one sump filter in 35 years .It was torn

Awesome. Well I will work on getting the filters checked and oil changed this weekend!

 

[Raymond]

Just offering a personal opinion - please feel free to disregard.

When I first had the bike, tried with the electric starter. Very slow - battery was bad. Tried again with jump leads from a good battery, and got her fired up. But I didn't like the grinding noise that emanates from the starter. Plus using the starter puts a helluva strain on the battery - obviously I have a new one in there now.

So I have perfected my kicking technique and it usually starts first or sometimes second serious kick. I only use the button in those situations - sitting in a filling station, impatient car driver waiting, bike is hot and has not started on the third kick, probably because I'm not taking my time and getting the action right.

Feels much better to kick start the bike. And of course, when you're showing off to friends, you are a hero as you light the engine up first kick!

Wot, showing off at my age? Of course not!

 

[Sudonate91]

Just offering a personal opinion - please feel free disregard.

When I first had the bike, tried with the electric starter. Very slow - battery was bad. Tried again with jump leads from a good battery, and got her fired up. But I didn't like the grinding noise that emanates from the starter. Plus using the starter puts a helluva strain on the battery - obviously I have a new one in there now.

So I have perfected my kicking technique and it usually starts first or sometimes second serious kick. I only use the button in those situations - sitting in a filling station, impatient car driver waiting, bike is hot and has not started on the third kick, probably because I'm not taking my time and getting the action right.

Feels much better to kick start the bike. And of course, when you're showing off to friends, you are a hero as you light the engine up first kick!

Wot, showing off at my age? Of course not!

I have no problem with ripping her open with a good kick . I just need to get good at it. It's also really hard to choke . I'm searching for a center stand so I am not kicking it on a slant which caused me to bruise the crap out of my leg.

 

[Raymond]

I'm searching for a center stand so I am not kicking it on a slant which caused me to bruise the crap out of my leg.

Interesting, not really relevant, but interesting - one of those cultural differences between bikers on different sides of the Atlantic. I've noticed, from a hundred Youtube vids, that Americans kick a bike on the centre stand. In the UK, nobody does. Well, having said that, there will now be a torrent of Brits saying they always put their bike on the stand to kick it . . .

Hope your leg feels better soon!

 

[jetmechmarty]

I never kick on the center stand. I keep my left foot on the pavement.

 

[gggGary]

all three, center, side, and no stand. Mostly side stand now. But when everything is right the XS650 is usually a "marty style" one foot on the ground easy kick start.
The choke rod originally had detents, balls and springs, they may be there just stuck caked in dirt, or a previous rebuild may have lost them (that's a thing).
Re-crimping the hairspring for the e-start clutch is a common easy fix once you get to it, under the clutch basket.

 

[Jim]

The choke rod originally had detents, balls and springs they may be there just stuck caked in dirt, or a previous rebuild may have lost them (that's a thing).

If the ball and spring is missing, take a few grease zerks apart. One of 'em will fess up the correct size ball and spring. Hat tip to RobinC for that bit of knowledge.

 

[gggGary]

Just a little drilling on the end of the zerk releases the ball and spring.

 

[5twins]

Yes, the choke is held open by detents, dimples drilled in the rod, and a small spring-loaded ball that fits into them. The parts drawing calls out 2, one in each carb, but you can get by with just one set in the left carb. If you inspect the choke pull rod, you'll see it only has detents for the ball on the section that runs through the left carb .....

There is a small hole in the side of the casting for the choke rod to drop the spring and ball in .....

As mentioned, maybe yours is just all gummed up and stuck "open". It's more likely the ball got lost. There's a good chance the spring is still in there though. The ball is a common 1/8" size.

Yes, you may need to go into the carbs again. It's pretty common not to get them totally clean the first time around. Another shortcoming of that video you put up is the guy doesn't stress the importance of blowing cleaner and compressed air through all the little passageways to insure they're clear. This is particularly important when it comes to the idle circuit. The fuel/air mix travels from the pilot jet and enters the main bore through 4 tiny holes .....

You must insure these are clear.

 

[Jan_P]

Kick starting is something I have done --- been there done that
In the beginning on British bikes .Some I knew kicked with a Closed petcock and opened it when it started
Avoiding to much fuel sucked in. Not sure if it helped.

The saying was if it don't start on first or second kick then you are in Trouble.
Some bikes had a reputation to be dangerous High compression pistons on twins and single 500 s BSA B33.
If one don't have the right technique and are not big enough man you might not get a Norton Commando to start at all.
" Its a mans game "
You have to be careful try avoid having a fully straight leg when it fires .. Because of it kickbacks ..it can hurt your leg
or worse
On XS 650 the rubber on the kick can be slippery when wet. I once slipped off and the kick hit the calf muscle .Limping for 1 week
On a summer road trip on camping sites and so. And still needed too keep on kick starting.
XS 650
I have had substandard wiring so I have always kick started .Trying the electrical only do it harder.
If on the kick stand -- makes the leg being in an angle if one needs to try hard. According technique
I move the kick to the ignition point and then I heave myself Upwards and then on the way down I start it
There are two ignition points ( 2 Cylinders ) one with the kick more horizontal which is advantage .Unless the other cylinder ignites more easily.
The use of choke is bike specific and temperature dependent
At some setup I had --- choke and throttle at kicking did the trick .Right now strangely it is choke and let go entirely off the gas handle
It feels awkward but it starts ..
It can help to do as the old Harley owners do Kick it around one two three times with ignition off and then start it.
notice it depends --- according the rule first or second kick or you are in trouble.
If you fumble and are getting to 5 th kickk ..one way can be to push the choke all the way in and do it a couple of more times
The way I do it if problems arise
On central stand .Stepping up having the foot on the left Foot peg and kick starter ( right side )
Heaving myself upvards ... jumping off the left side foot peg the right on the kick and on the way down Kicking it.

 

[Sudonate91]

Yes, the choke is held open by detents, dimples drilled in the rod, and a small spring-loaded ball that fits into them. The parts drawing calls out 2, one in each carb, but you can get by with just one set in the left carb. If you inspect the choke pull rod, you'll see it only has detents for the ball on the section that runs through the left carb .....

There is a small hole in the side of the casting for the choke rod to drop the spring and ball in .....

As mentioned, maybe yours is just all gummed up and stuck "open". It's more likely the ball got lost. There's a good chance the spring is still in there though. The ball is a common 1/8" size.

Yes, you may need to go into the carbs again. It's pretty common not to get them totally clean the first time around. Another shortcoming of that video you put up is the guy doesn't stress the importance of blowing cleaner and compressed air through all the little passageways to insure they're clear. This is particularly important when it comes to the idle circuit. The fuel/air mix travels from the pilot jet and enters the main bore through 4 tiny holes .....

You must insure these are clear.

Great info. I bought a new wire loom and a new breather tube too. Now That I know there is a chance with this bike. I am ready to invest the time and money in getting her going. I am surprised how self maintainable these bikes are. For someone who has never done this before - I feel like its been pretty easy and intuitive. But then again, I do have a bunch of really cool guys with a treasure chest of knowledge holding my hand! Again, I cant thank you all enough for the help!

 

[Sudonate91]

I'm going to be draining the motor oil and checking out the starter mechanism and such while it's empty. Anything else I should check/maintain while it's opened up?