9-Digit Vin Problem

[Monty]

Ok guys, this is for a 1982 XJ650.

I moved to Colorado and I am trying to get a new CO title and registration. The bike has the 9-digit code on the neck, the sticker on the neck is missing, and the engine is not original. My out of state title has the 17 digit number. The cop that did the inspection didn't have a problem, but of course, the DMV won't accept it. I swear, they seem to think all vehicles from the Model A onward came with a standardized 17 digit vin. Now, I sort of understand where the 17 digit vin comes from (see the next two utra confusing posts...), but trying to explain that to a DMV worker isn't going to happen, especially since I do not have the original engine and the sticker was removed before powder coating the frame.

Any ideas...?

 

[Monty]

It begins...

[Okay, gather 'round friends and prepare yourself, 'cause we're about to go down the rabbit hole......

Our STRONGEST advice is to not rely on the information on your title, bill of sale, insurance documents, state registration certificates or any other PIECE OF PAPER-----always go "right to horse's mouth"----or in this case, your bike's frame, and absolutely verify 100% what bike you actually have! You'd would be quite surprised how many people we come across who are ordering parts, for example, for a 1981 model XJ-whatever because that's what it was sold to them as (or titled as), when in reality they have a 1982 model! YOUR FRAME AND ENGINE CASE ID NUMBERS ALWAYS SPEAKS THE REAL TRUTH! Some typed-up piece of paper from a government or insurance company clerk does not always fall into that same category of certainty!

ALSO: verify that the engine in your bike is the original engine! Since many of the XJ-series engines are physically interchangable with each other, you never know what's been done over the years as far as engine-swapping is concerned! Rings and pistons from a 650 model engine are NOT going to fit a 750 engine, even if the 750 engine is installed in an XJ650 frame!!! So please---spend the 90 seconds or so necessary to determine whether the engine is original to the bike, and if not, what year/make/model bike that the engine came from. The procedure for doing this is described completely further below.

NUMBERS, NUMBERS-----EVERYWHERE:

In order to provide a simple basis of communication both internally (between the engineering, sales, production, marketing, and other departments within a company) and also externally (retail dealers, customers, governmental and other outside parties), vehicle manufacturers of all kinds choose to (and are now required to) provide unique "shorthand" codes for each particular unit that they offer for sale. The most commonly used code is what is commonly known as a VIN or Vehicle Identification Number----a sort of "DNA fingerprint" for an individual product. Besides containing a unique serial number for an individual bike, the VIN number also identifies unique characteristics of a bike, such as the manufacturer, the model or "platform" identification, certain optional characteristics, the year of manufacture, etc.

Before we get down to deciphering a VIN number, let's take a brief step back in time, and recognize that prior to 1981, there was no real set standard for how VIN numbers had to be assigned.....in other words, the VIN Numbers used (by any vehicle manufacturer) prior to 1981 was more-or-less an internal-use number, and could be conjured up in whatever way struck a manufacturer's fancy and served their internal needs.

Starting in the late 1970's, with the proliferation of manufacturers, vehicle production volumes, and international sales, a solution to the "VIN dilemma" was suggested by the International Standards Organization (outlined in ISO Standard #3779, for the ultra-curious), and this standard was adopted and required to be used by all manufacturers that sold vehicles into the USA by the National Highway Traffic Saftey Administration (NHTSA) as of 1981. This is when the familiar, still-used-today 17-position VIN number came into use, and similar structured VIN formats were also adopted by Canada, the European countries, and many other countries around the world.

Prior to 1981, manufacturers could use a VIN number length of their choice, and Yamaha was no exception in this regard. In fact, because of the difficulty encountered with implementing this required 1981 changeover, Yamaha (and some other manufacturers) were granted a 9-month "stay of execution" for their 1981 model-year offerings, where they could still use their older (shorter) version VIN numbers to identify their products.

Thus 1980, 1981, and perhaps even some very early production 1982 model-year bikes use a shorter VIN number that appears on the frame of the bike (more about this later), and may also include a printed paper decal that lists a different (longer) VIN number that is the "extended", 17-posiiton version of the original, shorter VIN number.

Although for the purposes of absolutely, positively identifying your bike for exactly what it "is", the differences between the shorty VIN and the longer VIN are minor---although since the full 17-position VIN number contains more information, it makes the deciphering process a bit less time-consuming, but rest assured that----armed with the proper information---even a "shorty VIN" can be just as accurately and fully de-coded.



WHAT'S YOUR NAME, LITTLE XJ, BABY WHAT'S YOUR NAME?:

Okay, here is how Yamaha VIN's breakdown. We're going to start with the full 17-position VIN, and only later go backwards and look at the shorty VIN's and see how they inter-relate to each other.

As an example, we're going to play motorcycle manufacturer and we're going to build ourselves a 1981 XJ650 Maxim VIN.

Here is a standardized 17-position string of letters and characters that we'll use as an example:

1234567890abcdefg

Now, we're going to break up that 17-character string into it's component bits and pieces, like this:

123 -45678- -9- -0- -a- -bcdefg

It's broken up this way because each sub-group of positions (as shown above) has a specific meaning, and here they are:

The first 3-position field ("123") is known as the WMI, or World Manufacturer Identifier code. For Yamaha, their WMI is "JYA", and thus all Yamaha motorcycle VIN numbers from this era begin with JYA:

JYA -45678- -9- -0- -a- -bcdefg

For the curious, the WMI code actually has a specific meaning for each position: the first position identifies the country in which the vehicle was manufactured (J = Japan), the second position identifies the unique manufacturer (Y = Yamaha), and the third position identifies the vehicle type or manufacturing division (A = motorcycle).

The next 5-position field ("45678") identifies the vehicle characteristics, such a body style, engine type, model, "platform", series, etc. Since Yamaha only identified these bikes by their general MODEL ID CODE, this field is always populated by the 3-position model ID code (5N8, 5G2, 4H7, etc.) followed by two zeros (thus 5N800, 5G200, 4H700, etc.). Although Yamaha could have coded engine size, or paint color, or whatever else they wanted to into those extra two positions, they chose not to, and thus they are always filled with zeros:

JYA4H700 -9- -0- -a- -bcdefg

By the way, the "4H7" model ID code is for a USA-destined 1980-81 XJ650 Maxim model, just so you can follow along more easily.

The next 1-position field---position "9" above---is always a mathematically calculated "check digit" that looks at all other positions of the full VIN number, performs a mathematical formula (multiplying, adding, and then dividing according to a pre-determined routine), and uses the remainder as the check digit. This process insures that transcribing errors and forgery efforts can be identified more easily.

For our example, we're going to use the number 6 as the check digit:

JYA4H7006 -0- -a- -bcdefg

Okay, the next position---the tenth position in the VIN number (designated by the number -0- above) identifies the year of your bike. NOTE: the "year" actually refers to the MODEL YEAR of your bike, and not the year in which it was produced. Since "next year's" models normally are available in dealer showrooms sometime around September of the previous calender year, the model year of the bike and the calender year of a bike's production can differ.

In fact, on the VIN decal on your bike, besides the 17-position VIN number, you will also find the date of the bike production in the format MM/YY, such as 10/80 (meaning October, 1980). A 10/80-built bike would be a 1981 MODEL YEAR vehicle.

The model YEAR code in the tenth position of the VIN are as follows:

A = 1980
B = 1981
C = 1982
D = 1983
E = 1984
F = 1985
G = 1986
and so on......

 

[Monty]

Some more...

Since we've agreed that we're putting together a 1981 model, then of course the tenth position is---from the chart above---the letter "B":

NOTE: we're going to confuse you now----and it won't be the last time. The year-designation letter codes listed above ONLY PERTAIN TO THE MODEL YEAR CODE USED IN THE VIN.

There is an alternative way of identifying the year of your bike by the Yamaha marketing "model name" of your bike, and it also uses a letter code for such year-model identification purposes, BUT SUCH MODEL DESIGNATION "NAMES" USE A DIFFERENT LETTER CODE THAN WHAT IS THE VIN "YEAR" IDENTIFIER CODE!

Okay, deep breath now, keep going, and forget about that last paragraph for now----but, do keep it in mind for later.........

JYA4H7006B -a- -bcdefg

The 11th position of a VIN number (-a-) is the location of the ASSEMBLY PLANT where the bike was made. All bikes in this era were produced in Japan, probably at their Iwata City production facility, which was the "A" location. Thus the 11th position of all XJ model bikes will be the letter "A":

JYA4H7006BA -bcdefg

And now we're down to the last 6 positions of the full VIN, and this is the unique, sequential "serial number" of each individual bike. Your own bike has a serial number that is different than every other one ever produced for your model and year bike.

For various reasons, Yamaha assigned a range of serial numbers for each bike year and model, and these numbers did not normally start with the number "000001". The starting point for each serial number differs by year and model. For the 1981 XJ650 Maxim used in this example, the serial number range starts with serial number "100101". Each subsequent 1981 XJ650 Maxim model 4H7 destined for the US marketplace got the next higher serial number, thus the second bike off the assembly line was #100102, etc.

Let's pretend that this was the 1,356th 1981 XJ650 Maxim destined for the US marketplace. So starting with the 100101 number, we add 1,356 to it, and get: 101457 ( = 1,356 + 100,101).

So our final VIN for this particular bike is:

JYA4H7006BA101457

which, breaking it down into its component, meaningful parts again, is this:

JYA -4H700- -6- -B- -A- -101457

Now, with all of the above in mind, we can see from the above 17-position VIN that most of the information that is USEFUL is really just the MODEL ID part (4H700), the year (B), and the unique serial number portion (101457).

In fact, in the model ID part, since positions 4 and 5 were not used by Yamaha to designate anything at all, and thus are always "00", then really only the model ID part (4H7) contain any useful infromation:

4H7---the model identification portion, in this case meaning a 1980 or 1981 XJ650 Maxim.

B---the model year, in this case 1981.

101457---the unique production number ("serial number") of this particular bike.



And Here's Where We Go Backwards:

From the example above, we see that although a full 17-position VIN number was required of Yamaha (and everyone else) beginning in 1981, all of the useful information contained in the 17-position VIN can just as easily be captured by a "shorty" version of the VIN, just as Yamaha used prior to 1981:

4H7-101457

That smaller string of numbers, above, is what was considered a "VIN" number for 1981 and prior years.

BUT WAIT!, I hear you cry.........where is that useful piece of information called the "YEAR"? (in the full "long VIN", recall that the 10th position uses a letter code to designate the model YEAR, and in our example it's the letter "B", since B = 1981).

Good question. And here's the good answer:

Recall this statement from above:

"For various reasons, Yamaha assigned a range of serial numbers for each bike year and model, and these numbers did not start with the number 000001."

Well, one of those reasons is that by assigning a defined RANGE of unique serial numbers to each year and model of bike, that unique serial number not only identifies the individual unit of production (thus completely serving the "serial number, DNA-fingerprint" purpose of that number), but also serves as a way of identifying the year of production, too!

Here, as an example, for the 1980 and 1981 XJ650 Maxim (4H7) models, we have:

1980: starting serial number of 000101
1981: starting serial number of 100101

Thus, if you come across this shorty VIN:

4H7-021338

then you know that since the "serial number" is less than the number 100,101 (which is the starting serial number for 1981 models), then it's a 1980 XJ650 Maxim.

But when you see this shorty VIN, as from our "Build-A-Bike" example above:

4H7-101457

then since that serial number is greater than the "100101" starting point for 1981 model year bikes, then you automatically know that it's a 1981 (and not a 1980) "4H7" bike (an XJ650 Maxim).



And In Confusion, Whoops, I Meant "Conclusion":

Because the rules changed in 1981, and forced vehicle builders to use a structured, standardized 17-position format for the VIN, the 1980 and 1981 model bikes can have both the long or the short (or both) VIN numbers on the bike. With a little bit of additional information (the serial number range), you can fully "translate" the shorty VIN into the longer 17-position VIN. The longer VIN is standardized, and I suppose that's good; and it also explicitly codes the model year (in the 10th position), which is really the ONLY feature that the shorty VIN does not clearly encode.

Now, onto the burning questions:


Where on my bike is this long, or short, or any other VIN's?:

I don't have the slightest idea.........

Just kidding. The number(s) are in at least two places, and on most bikes, three locations:

1) On the right side of the steering "neck" or tube (or "head pipe" as it is sometimes called), you'll find stamped the shorty VIN (1980 and early-1982 models) or the full 17-positions VIN (late-1981 and later years) is stamped, vertically, into the frame tube.

2) On the left side of the steering "neck" or tube, there will be a white printed decal that will have the full 17-position VIN, along with typical boilerplate "conforms with regulations blah-blah-blah" wording. NOTE: it is on this decal, and only on this decal, that the date of your bike's manufacture is also printed, in a MM/YY format (i.e. 10/81 = October 1981 = a 1982 model year bike).

Note that for late-1981 year bikes and on, that the full 17-position VIN number appears on both the left-side decal and right-side stamping of the frame's steering neck tube.

On some later model bikes----primarily late-model XJ900 models----this ID "decal" became a metal plate that was rivited to the right side frame down-tube.

3) On the engine case, just behind or beside the clutch cover on the right side of the engine, on a small, flat machined pad that faces up (towards the sky). On XJ550 models, this pad is oriented left-to-right on the engine case, while on all other models it is oriented front-to-back.

What will you find on this pad?

The "shorty" VIN, as described previously. In our 1981 XJ650 Maxim, example, this flat pad would have this number stamped into it (as long as the engine is the original engine that came with the bike):

4H7-101457

Note that it does not matter what year your bike is; even after 1981, the number stamped onto this engine case pad is ALWAYS the "shorty VIN" number, and never the 17-position VIN.

From our discussion above, it is clear that if the engine in the bike is the original engine, then this number on the engine case will match, exactly, the shorty VIN on the right side of frame neck tube (1980 to early-1981 models), or, working backwards, to the model ID (4H7) and unique serial number (101457) of the longer VIN on 1982-later models.

Also, in situations where the engine has been replaced, you can actually figure out not only what engine it is (from the shorty VIN stamped onto the engine case), but you can actually work out the actual VIN number of the bike that such engine came from! All you need to know is the model ID codes (listed below), the serial number ranges (also listed below), and from that you can figure out the YEAR of the engine (and thus the bike).......giving you that "missing" bit of information that the full 17-position VIN does explicitly code for.....and then, using the "check digit" computation routine, you can actually calculate the full, complete VIN for the bike that an engine came from!

Now that's some kinda special party trick, you gotta admit!

 

[Monty]

Damn, it took 3 post, not 2...

Some Other Semi-Useful Tidbits Of Information About VIN's:

* In order to avoid visual confusion errors, the letters I, O, and Q are not allowed in any position of a 1981-later VIN.

* In order to avoid visual confusion errors, the characters U, Z, and 0 (zero) are not used for the model-year designation (the 10th position); however, the letters U and Z and the number 0 can be used in any other positions of the VIN.

* Although you didn't ask, here is how you calculate the "check digit" that is in position #9 in the VIN:

A) All letters and characters in the long VIN are assigned a numerical value. Numbers, of course, keep their like-value (i.e. 1 = 1, 5 = 5, etc.) Letters are assigned the numerical values as follows:

1 = A or J
2 = B, K, or S
3 = C, L, or T
4 = D, M, or U
5 = E, N, or V
6 = F or W
7 = G, P, or X
8 = H or Y
9 = R or Z


B) A multiplication factor is assigned to each VIN character position:

1st position: x8
2nd position: x7
3rd position: x6
4th position: x5
5th position: x4
6th position: x3
7th position: x2
8th position: x10
9th position: unknown, this is what you're trying to figure out!
10th position: x9
11th position: x8
12th position: x7
13th position: x6
14th position: x5
15th position: x4
16th position: x3
17th position: x2


C) Okay, now convert the 17-position VIN to the numerical value as outlined in "A" above:

JYA4H700?BA101457 (the ? is the check digit we're trying to calculate)

becomes, from the coding routine in "A" above:

18148700?21101457

and multiply each position value by the multiplication factor in "B" above:

1st position: 1 x8 = 8
2nd position: 8 x7 = 56
3rd position: 1 x6 = 6
4th position: 4 x5 = 20
5th position: 8 x4 = 32
6th position: 7 x3 = 21
7th position: 0 x2 = 0
8th position: 0 x10 = 0
9th position: unknown, this is what you're trying to figure out!
10th position: 2 x9 = 18
11th position: 1 x8 = 8
12th position: 1 x7 = 7
13th position: 0 x6 = 0
14th position: 1 x5 = 5
15th position: 4 x4 = 16
16th position: 5 x3 = 15
17th position: 7 x2 = 14


D) Now, add up all those sums from above:

8 + 56 + 6 + 20 + 32 + 21 + 0 + 0 + 18 + 8 + 7 + 0 + 5 + 16 + 15 + 14 = 226

Divide the sum (226) by 11 and note what the "remainder" is:

226 divided by 11 = 20 with a "remainder" of 6.........here, I'd forgotten basic math, too, so here's what a "remainder" is!:

226 divided by 11 is 20.5455, but the ".5455" part is not important. What IS important is that 11 x 20 = 220, and the "remainder" is 6 (because 220 + 6 is = 226). The "remainder" is the amount "left over" when you are using just whole numbers, no decimal places or fractions allowed.........

So the check digit for this VIN is 6:

JYA4H7006BA101457

By the way, if the calculations for a particular VIN leaves a "remainder" of 10 or more, then the check digit becomes the letter "X".

 

[nj1639]

Try to find a DMV worker close to retirement age.....they might have a clue.
my local BMV had some issues filling out my out of state title. I overheard what sounded like to me that they had to enter zeros as placeholders for the so called missing numbers to bring the total to 17.

 

[Monty]

I live in a really small town and the DMV is only open 3 times a week. There is only one lady works there...

 

[pamcopete]

I live in a really small town and the DMV is only open 3 times a week. There is only one lady works there...

Yes...I lived in a town like that once...I eventually moved to another state. That's about all you can do unless you want to take up a different hobby.

I had a similar problem with my '81/H but as was noted above, I found an adult at the DMV who knew what she was doing and it was simple. She just added a few zero's to the original number and issued me a title. Now, it's my insurance company that sends me a letter about every six months telling me that my VIN is missing some numbers. I dutifully go on line to their web site and click on the "Correct VIN" button and leave a note explaining the situation. They acknowledge the note and tell me it won't happen again, but six months later, another letter arrives.

Its all because of computers and data base managers. As long as they can satisfy 98% of the customers, the other 2% don't stand a chance. It's kinda like pealing cucumbers. If you are the peal, its down the drain you go.