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Batteryless xs650 capacitor fell off during ride

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Anthony1993, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Ok so, I have a 1978 xs650 bobber i been building. I had it running and was almost finished.
    I took it out for its first test ride and I over looked buttoning down the capacitor nice and tight before leaving.
    As you could guess, I was rolling down the road (about a 1/2 mile or so) and the capacitor fell out of the mount and there for ripped the wire connections off and fell under my rear tire, thus being run over very quickly.
    I bought a new capacitor (same exact one that broke) and now my bike won't spark.

    I'm wondering, could the capacitor falling off like that have caused a short in the system? Could it have fried my regulator or coil? Possibly even my ignition points?
    My electrical understanding is very minimal.

    Thank you
     
  2. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    You don't have points is your ignition Pamco? If so yes a capacitor leaving the bike could fry it.
     
  3. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    I'm not sure.. honestly. It's the electronic ignition system from Mike's XS
    Im not sure honestly.. I purchased XS650 High Output Ignition Kit from Mike's xs.
    The electronic ignition makes it pamco right? Or is that a brand related to pamco Pete?
    Anyways. It's the electronic ignition on the left side of the motor.
    Also, I'm running kick start only. Not sure if that changes anything.
    Huge thanks for the reply! I been rewiring and reconnecting all day.
    Will the rectifier be ok?
     
  4. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    my first thing to do would be to hook a battery up to the ignition and see if that gives you spark. Then find the specs for each component, and start testing til you find the dead one(s).
     
    lakeview and peanut like this.
  5. mrtwowheel

    mrtwowheel Honda Etched On Brain Top Contributor

    Was the capacitor charged? How do you charge a capacitor anyways? Like Gary said, hook up a good battery and see what happens.

    Scott
     
  6. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    I'm running batteryless ignition. Kick start only. I dont have a battery on hand. And I'm not exactly sure how I would quickly connect a battery to my system? Like I said , my electrical knowledge is minimal. I also did not know that you need to "charge" a capacitor?
    If that's the case, maybe I need to do that?
     
    mrtwowheel likes this.
  7. JAX71224

    JAX71224 jax71224

    Not intending to be a smart-ass but if you don't know how to do stuff like this on your own bike....ya really need to do a lot of reading and learning..... or buy a late model bike and just change oil regularly and store properly during off-season.........Sorry to be so blunt...It.s been a long hot day here.
     
    lakeview, B_Crabaugh and peanut like this.
  8. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Everyone learns one way or another and it never hurts to ask questions if you dont know.
    Do you have any information on the questions I've asked?
     
    peanut likes this.
  9. JAX71224

    JAX71224 jax71224

    You're right and I apologize for the way I responded. I was wrong. The system you are using, did it come on the bike or did you set it up that way? Not a lot of info to go by from what I have read here. Capacitor type ignitions rely on the capacitor to provide the initial energy to energize the coils for the engine to start, thus the question about charging the cap. It can be done from any 12volt source applying positive to the output end and negative to the case but handle it carefully as it can discharge into your hand with surprising ZAP! If never charged it won't spark the coils or plugs. Do you have points ignition? A bit more background info would help to get things running.......Again sorry, I'm not usually that crass but sure was that time!
     
    peanut likes this.
  10. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Welcome to the forum.:thumbsup:

    you can use any 12v battery and a couple of bits of wire to connect it. have you not got access to a car battery ? or a cordless drill battery or a smoke alarm battery ? hell even a 9v torch battery would probably be enough to generate a spark.

    Search for 'no spark' in the search box and you'll find hundreds of helpful threads to read through. also look at the electrical wiring diagrams in the TECH section at the top of the page
     
  11. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Hey thanks for the help!
    I have have multiple wiring diagrams printed out that I've been using. 1 specifically for the most basic setup to prove everything is operational and another that is the ultimate end goal. And several more as reference points!
    I do have access to those types of batteries actually I was just unaware that it's possible to use them .
    So is it agreed upon by most on the forum that the capacitor needs to be charged?
    Also, connecting the battery will prove that all my other components are good to go right? Rectifier , coil, ignition?
    And thanks for the suggestion! I've been relentlessly looking for more info with no luck but sometimes a simple change of words brings the correct info through the algorithm
     
  12. peanut

    peanut XS650 enthusiast & inveterate tinkerer Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    I'm not the right person to offer advice on capacitive batteryless ignition systems but yes the capacitor needs charging in order to produce an ignition spark.

    if your charging system isn't working then the capacitor will not get charged when you kick the engine over . You have probably blown a fuse or damaged the rectifier .

    You can fit a battery in place of the capacitor and see if it produces a spark Watch the polarity of the capacitor when connecting it and don't touch the capacitor terminals unless you discharge the capacitor first or you could get a nasty shock.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  13. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Might pay to read through this thread
    http://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-and-pamco-ignition.46859/

    If the reg/rect is damaged and the bike is started then it may take out the XSCharge ignition.............In the link it describes a method to test the XScharge ignition without the PMA and vise versa so the systems are compatible when run in conjunction............

    Don't expect Pamcopete to chime in or offer any advice, due to the circumstances highlighted in blue
     
    peanut likes this.
  14. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Ok well I'm fuckin stupid. This is how little of an understanding I have for electronics. I hooked up my 18v drill battery with some wire and alligator clips to the positive and negative wires that connect to my capacitor to try and give it spark. Still no spark. Even tried the ol screwdriver in the plug cap trick and no spark at all.
    And unfortunately I left the battery connected and my coil got hot and started oozing black plastic shit. So now I'm sure the coil is fried as well.
    Btw it was only connected for prob 2 minutes total and that was enough to do the damage. It's my fault. I'm dumb.

    Anyway . No spark with good power. Would that be an pma ignition prob or a rectifier prob?
     
  15. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    I havnt had a chance to read the link yet. But the rectifier was damaged directly and shouldn't be damaged at all. UNLESS the capacitor falling off while the bike is running would damage the rectifier? In that case it would be damaged.
     
  16. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    In that link Pamcopete mentions how long it takes for a coil to fry when the key is left on...........maybe a read before trying peanuts suggestion would have been prudent
     
    mrtwowheel likes this.
  17. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Yeah it would have. I'm dumb.
     
  18. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    no....... never dumb.......just made a mistake to learn from.......
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  19. Anthony1993

    Anthony1993 XS650 Enthusiast

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    Very true. Every mistake is a learning experience. I've been trying to post a pick of the coil . You guys think it's still good? Prob not. I'm just broke and trying to pinch Penny's. It's looking like I'm going to need a whole new ignition kit from Mike's xs
     
  20. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    Test test and test...........then only bad parts need replacing..........don't assume
     

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