A fellow named Ken Maxwell made a CD about the XS650 electrical system. You could check 650 Central for it or Google it. I believe Ken is still on the archaic yam650 email list. I saw him at the Smoky Mountain Rendezvous last year.
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charging system dead
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A fellow named Ken Maxwell made a CD about the XS650 electrical system. You could check 650 Central for it or Google it. I believe Ken is still on the archaic yam650 email list. I saw him at the Smoky Mountain Rendezvous last year.
40 year old parts fail "because of bad design" but my "modern" TV's and computers tend to fail in about 5 years.
Wiring explained:
http://www.mikesxs.net/ken_maxwell/WiringExplained.html
http://www.mikesxs.net/ken_maxwell/WiringExplained.html
blank slate
XS650 Addict
It's not real money, it's Canadian $$$
FWIW, I've been riding my XS650 since I bought it new in 1983. All I've done in 56K miles is maintain it. I keep a fresh battery and do periodic inspections. I pretty much follow the service manual, but I'm ADD, so it's not always on time. The machine is forgiving. This spring, I noted the wiring connector from the stator (behind the left side cover) showed signs of overheating. I found corrosion that had to be addressed. Continuing without inspection means waiting for a failure. In my case failure would have been letting the smoke out of the stator. $$$
It's a great bike and you can ride it for cheap, but you have to get to know it and care for it. Yamaha did not design it to last 40 years.
It's a great bike and you can ride it for cheap, but you have to get to know it and care for it. Yamaha did not design it to last 40 years.
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Tony at Oregon Cycle enjoys a very good reputation. He's on some of the forums helping folks solve their issues. I'm sure he can't keep the doors open selling regulators for $30. Without folks like him, our hobby is that much more challenging. I've never heard of him ripping anyone off.
Saying this, I hope it won't start a debate. I know you can get a cheap regulator. Go where you're comfortable.
Yup - agreed with JetMechMarty, WER and Gary on all of this.
If you do need a new rotor - I'd PM Gary to see if he has a solid replacement for sale. His feedback on parts sales is flawless.
The rotor puller tool is available from XS650 Direct in Stratford, ON and I'd suggest using a new nut and lockwasher as well. The puller is $17 and the lockwasher and nut are $5 CDN - but I'd wait and see if you need anything else because they ship free if you spend $150 CDN.
SOME REMARKS on FINDING XS650 PARTS
Based on my 18 months as a member of the XS650 community, I have found that the folks on this forum who have good parts stocks (i.e. are relentless hoarders...
) and who sell/trade parts, are great source of supply - and because everyone knows everyone, the deals tend to be excellent and prices MORE than fair.
.
I know that a lot of people on the forum don't like XS650 Direct and their US affiliate MikesXS - but I have had no issues with them and in fact, have found their parts to be quite OK, with just one or two exceptions (mainly rubber parts like the fuel tank cap sealing washer). I think that they have had some poor suppliers in the past (and maybe still) and that in particular, MikesXS' customer service could use a little work - but XS650 Direct - which only operates in Canada - has been great to deal with, in my experience. I have found that if I place an order before about 1:00 PM, the package is nearly always sitting on my front porch the next morning by 9:30 AM. BTW - the two companies are separate - but they have exactly the same parts listings and pricing.
If you don't like dealing with XS650 Direct, another great parts source is the web itself. Here is a great tip:
....for a brand new set of NOS (New Old Stock - which means parts that are new in their original wrapping from Yamaha - have never been sold) OEM brushes for the princely sum of $8.55 USD. Now, they're in Australia - but even shipping these tiny parts won't cost much - and there are undoubtedly other listings from places that are much closer than Oz. I have not yet found a part that I cannot source off the web if I am willing to wait a couple of days - except mufflers which never seem to come up.
In addition to www.boats.net, I have also bought parts from www.650Central.com and from a firm called YamBits in the UK and they are all also good to deal with (but slower than XS650 Direct). Again though, if you can get the original part number - DO IT - and try just going directly to Google with it because there are tons of small vendors out there who have NOS OEM parts for these bikes - and in virtually every case, the deals are good.
Remember, Yamaha built more than 500,000 XS650s over the bike's 15 year production run from 1970 to 1984 - and they sold them in just about every market in the world, so there were dealers everywhere who stocked spares - and many have liquidated their stocks to re-sellers. Also, a large number of the parts on OUR bikes were used on other Yamaha models - and in fact, most of the nuts, bolts, bearings and bushing-type parts still are current Yamaha parts. So - if you go into your local dealer and ask for a "rear wheel bearing for a 1978 XS650 Special", the parts guy is likely to only hear "1978" and tell you "sorry buddy - no got" - but if you go in and ask him for a Yamaha p/n SE -114240-93306-30507-00 - chances are that he has one of those - because that very same bearing is used on bikes ranging from a 1970 XS-1 (the first XS650 model) right up to a 1990 Yamaha FZR1000AC - and heaven knows what else since then according to another supplier called Partszilla.
Anyhow - the lesson is: parts, tools and expertise are readily available and that bike WILL run again. Stick with the forum and ask questions - the answers are here.
Cheers,
Pete
If you do need a new rotor - I'd PM Gary to see if he has a solid replacement for sale. His feedback on parts sales is flawless.
The rotor puller tool is available from XS650 Direct in Stratford, ON and I'd suggest using a new nut and lockwasher as well. The puller is $17 and the lockwasher and nut are $5 CDN - but I'd wait and see if you need anything else because they ship free if you spend $150 CDN.
SOME REMARKS on FINDING XS650 PARTS
Based on my 18 months as a member of the XS650 community, I have found that the folks on this forum who have good parts stocks (i.e. are relentless hoarders...
) and who sell/trade parts, are great source of supply - and because everyone knows everyone, the deals tend to be excellent and prices MORE than fair..
I know that a lot of people on the forum don't like XS650 Direct and their US affiliate MikesXS - but I have had no issues with them and in fact, have found their parts to be quite OK, with just one or two exceptions (mainly rubber parts like the fuel tank cap sealing washer). I think that they have had some poor suppliers in the past (and maybe still) and that in particular, MikesXS' customer service could use a little work - but XS650 Direct - which only operates in Canada - has been great to deal with, in my experience. I have found that if I place an order before about 1:00 PM, the package is nearly always sitting on my front porch the next morning by 9:30 AM. BTW - the two companies are separate - but they have exactly the same parts listings and pricing.
If you don't like dealing with XS650 Direct, another great parts source is the web itself. Here is a great tip:
- If you go to www.boats.net - they sell OEM Yamaha parts and have a complete set of assembly schematics and listings which allow you to get the actual Yamaha part numbers. For example, I just went there and found that the alternator brushes for your bike are Yamaha p/n SE1114-140-256-81612-11-00
- Boats.net states that those parts are obsolete (which means THEY don't stock them) - but they do list a cost of - holy cow - $49 USD / set - BUT - the really valuable info is the part number itself. I simply cut and pasted that part number (just the bold-faced text above with NO other words or description) into my google search window and up popped an eBay listing:
....for a brand new set of NOS (New Old Stock - which means parts that are new in their original wrapping from Yamaha - have never been sold) OEM brushes for the princely sum of $8.55 USD. Now, they're in Australia - but even shipping these tiny parts won't cost much - and there are undoubtedly other listings from places that are much closer than Oz. I have not yet found a part that I cannot source off the web if I am willing to wait a couple of days - except mufflers which never seem to come up.
In addition to www.boats.net, I have also bought parts from www.650Central.com and from a firm called YamBits in the UK and they are all also good to deal with (but slower than XS650 Direct). Again though, if you can get the original part number - DO IT - and try just going directly to Google with it because there are tons of small vendors out there who have NOS OEM parts for these bikes - and in virtually every case, the deals are good.
Remember, Yamaha built more than 500,000 XS650s over the bike's 15 year production run from 1970 to 1984 - and they sold them in just about every market in the world, so there were dealers everywhere who stocked spares - and many have liquidated their stocks to re-sellers. Also, a large number of the parts on OUR bikes were used on other Yamaha models - and in fact, most of the nuts, bolts, bearings and bushing-type parts still are current Yamaha parts. So - if you go into your local dealer and ask for a "rear wheel bearing for a 1978 XS650 Special", the parts guy is likely to only hear "1978" and tell you "sorry buddy - no got" - but if you go in and ask him for a Yamaha p/n SE -114240-93306-30507-00 - chances are that he has one of those - because that very same bearing is used on bikes ranging from a 1970 XS-1 (the first XS650 model) right up to a 1990 Yamaha FZR1000AC - and heaven knows what else since then according to another supplier called Partszilla.
Anyhow - the lesson is: parts, tools and expertise are readily available and that bike WILL run again. Stick with the forum and ask questions - the answers are here.
Cheers,
Pete
I fully concur that the stock charging system works just fine - IF it is maintained (which means clean connections, a good battery and regular checks of the alternator brushes. However, as point out above, nothing lasts forever and that alternator insulation can certainly break down, especially if the bike has ever been overheated.
Marty makes a very good point in the quote above about the rotor being an electromagnet. I'm not an electrical expert (step forward RG) - but I think that the XS650 alternator is what is known as a separately excited machine which means that the rotor needs that power feed through the brushes to generate electricity for the charging system. Poor brush connections = no electricity generated. Also, from your slip ring-to-slip ring resistance measurements, it does indeed sound like your rotor is cooked. That re-build from the firm in Alabama is highly regarded on this forum, so that is a good bet if Gary doesn't have a good rotor to sell.
As for the regulator - FWIW - I simply bought the regulator-rectifier combo unit from XS650 Direct - and it works great on my '76 Standard. This unit replaces both the stock electromechanical regulator inside the LH sidecover and the solid state rectifier unit which is mounted on the underside of the battery box. BTW - I am pretty sure mine is marked "Made in the USA" - but I might be incorrect in that. In any event, it has been there for over a year and still works flawlessly (touch wood). NOTE: there is nothing inherently wrong with the stock components - but my regulator was badly corroded and the rectifier showed obvious signs of a battery leak so I ditched them for a modern solid-state automotive component.
The combo came with all of the necessary wiring and connectors and I had it mounted and working in about an hour for $69 CDN. I mounted it using a big hose clamp and a couple of long zip-ties right under my airbox - and behind the rear engine mount. I did it that way so that it was well out in the breeze and also to protect it from XS650 vibration (they DO vibrate you know). You can see it in the photo below as a black blob with some cooling fins - way back in there. A couple of tips: drill a hole in the chassis of the unit (one of the cooling fins is a good spot) and run a good heavy ground wire to the frame of the bike and also - be sure it can get lots of cooling air as this thing can run warm.
NOTE - before people start jumping on me about recommending XS650 Direct - I want to state for the record that I have NO connection with XS650 Direct, or MikesXS whatsoever. BUT - my dealings with them have been fine and I would also note that these firms have supported XS650 events (isn't that correct Marty?), plus they sure do make operating our bikes a heck of a lot easier because they are quick suppliers of parts that (generally) fit and (usually) work just fine, IMHO.
Pete
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Last year Mike's XS donated more than $500 in merchandise to the September Vintage Yamaha Rally (XS Southeast). Everyone who rode in on an XS650 went home with parts for their bike, just for showing up. We also received generous donations from XJBikes.com, Yamaha, Cycle Gear, and several others.
blank slate just for curiosity sake would you take a picture from the side of the rotor? Showing the insulation and wiring between the two clam shells?
+1 on Custom Rewind
+1 on Garys used parts emporium.
-1 on Mikes replacement
I can get pictures of Mikes rotor vs. a decent used unit if you want to see the difference.
But hey it is your scooter and your decision.
+1 on Custom Rewind
+1 on Garys used parts emporium.
-1 on Mikes replacement
I can get pictures of Mikes rotor vs. a decent used unit if you want to see the difference.
But hey it is your scooter and your decision.
Yeah...WER - I wonder why MikesXS doesn't just become a re-seller of the Custom Rewind rotors? I guess they'd have trouble with the core charge / exchange stuff.
I wish they'd simply concentrate on the good stuff that they do carry.
Pete
I wish they'd simply concentrate on the good stuff that they do carry.
Pete
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I believe 650 Central handles the rewind.
WER, you're right. The Mike's XS rotor has a very bad reputation. I concur with your opinion.
Indeed - that is correct Marty. Here is the info from 650 Central's website:
Stock Charging System Rotors
We offer a quality rotor rebuild service . Rotors listed are sold
on an exchange basis. A Core charge of $50.00 is applied until we
receive a Rebuildable Unit from you. 1 year warrantee
1974-1979 (with factory points style ignition)
#HCEN40-401 ..... $175.00 + core
1980-1984 (with factory electronic ignition)
#HCEN40-402 ..... $175.00 + core
Beware Chinese Junk!
This sure looks like a great deal to me.
Pete
Stock Charging System Rotors
We offer a quality rotor rebuild service . Rotors listed are sold
on an exchange basis. A Core charge of $50.00 is applied until we
receive a Rebuildable Unit from you. 1 year warrantee
1974-1979 (with factory points style ignition)
#HCEN40-401 ..... $175.00 + core
1980-1984 (with factory electronic ignition)
#HCEN40-402 ..... $175.00 + core
Beware Chinese Junk!
This sure looks like a great deal to me.
Pete
Attachments
DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
I called Custom directly and was quoted a great price for a rotor/stator set that was on the shelf ready for shipping. I would have gone with it, but gggGary set me up with a perfectly suitable used set for about a third of the rewind. You really can't go wrong with either of these two options.
I'm a big fan of 650Central, but call Custom. I was looking at ~$200 for the set. I'm not sure what just the rotor would run.
I'm a big fan of 650Central, but call Custom. I was looking at ~$200 for the set. I'm not sure what just the rotor would run.
blank slate
XS650 Addict
incredible info guys
sounds like going with gary's parts is the way to go. if i shipped my rotor to the US it would cost me $30 each way, plus servicing it.
here are pics requested... i do not see any brushes that you guys are talking about. will keep looking
sounds like going with gary's parts is the way to go. if i shipped my rotor to the US it would cost me $30 each way, plus servicing it.
here are pics requested... i do not see any brushes that you guys are talking about. will keep looking
Attachments
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DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
Those two springy square bits in the bottom picture are your brushes. You have a manual, yes?
Hyde
XS650 Addict
Brushes are in your 3rd pic, you can see the shiny squares pushing through near the center hole.
brushes circled.
DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
Well, that's covered.
I see what looks to be oil on the drive sprocket in the 2nd photo in post #9. Be sure it's tightened to spec. ~90lbs! You might also want to put some sealer on the sprocket/bushing surface.
I see what looks to be oil on the drive sprocket in the 2nd photo in post #9. Be sure it's tightened to spec. ~90lbs! You might also want to put some sealer on the sprocket/bushing surface.
blank slate
XS650 Addict
gotcha. so i should remove them and measure how much life (in millimetres) they have left.
as they are now, one button is sitting higher than the other. the high one has a good resistance in the spring, while the low one is not as resistant. we'll call him Jeb for his low energy.
as they are now, one button is sitting higher than the other. the high one has a good resistance in the spring, while the low one is not as resistant. we'll call him Jeb for his low energy.
