Should work fine Paul. Thermal expansion rate for 6082 and 7075 are about the same and should have more than enough compression strength.
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Clutch pushrod question
- Thread starter crazyjoe86
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- clutch fabricating how to
You'll also notice on your current 2 piece set-up that the shorter outer rod is all steel, the inner is bi-metal. The long one piece rod that came in the early 650s was all steel. I don't know why Yamaha did that as it's obvious they had the means to make bi-metal rods. I don't know why they changed to a 2 rod set-up either. That short outer rod wears the bushing and seal quicker because it's more prone to wiggling side to side. I think a better change they could have made would have been a long one piece bi-metal rod.
Paul, the melting range of 6XXX aluminum is about 570 to 650C. So that solder you have there won't work. The aluminum would start to melt at the same time as the solder.
Have a look at this. Soldering dissimilar metals such as al. and steel is possible (which surprised me) but it takes some pretty exotic stuff to do it. Not really a DIY task.
I think the best you can hope for is a good interference fit. Since the aluminum expansion rate is larger than steel, you'll want the pin side on the aluminum and the hole in the steel.
JimD54, because the rod is 8mm I will drill the steel at 7mm which leaves 0.5mm as a hard casing for the bearing area. This will also allow me to maximize the Aluminium thickness. It will be interference fit with Loctite 648.
-Thank you.
-Thank you.
Maybe you could make the steel ends from old original rods? You might be able to actually use one of the ends from the longer inner rod, if you could get it off somehow. Different expansion rates would also mean different contraction rates, so maybe you could just freeze the rod for a day or two and maybe then the steel end cap would easily pull right off. Use the dimensions you find on that little end cap mount to turn a short steel outer rod into the long outer end you need.
That bush for the push rod: Is it acceptable to take for example an 8x11x22mm sintered/oil impregnated bush and turn it down to 8x10x8mm? Its just there is a supplier near to me and they are quite cheap at £3 for two?
I see no problem with that, but you want 8 x 10 x 10. 8mm I.D. by 10mm O.D. by 10mm long. I got the idea of trying slightly longer 12mm ones but then 2M discovered there's an oil feed hole just behind the bushing and you run the risk of blocking it if you use a longer than stock bushing.
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I do not believe that steel or aluminum or a combination of both is going make a bit of difference. I used the same 1-piece 7075AL rod that TwoMany used with a Heiden hydraulic clutch and the expansion rate made no difference in clutch operation. The Heiden hydraulic clutch made a big difference it is now self adjusting hot or cold! But forget finding neutral hot!
Here it is, posts #10 thru #19:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/grinding-scraping-noise-in-5th-gear.42928/#post-428563
I have just been checking the oil feed hole and bushing clearance. On my 81 SH the recess for the bushing is 10.8mm deep. Then the push rod bore down the center of the shaft contracts to approximately 9mm. Beyond this step lies the oil feed hole by a couple of mm. This means I cannot fit a 12mm long bushing, it also means that it is not possible to accidentally block the oil feed hole. Perhaps this was a safety feature added to the later models? I will machine the bearing today to the original dimensions of 8 x 10 x 10. I will also drill a 3mm hole in the bushing to facilitate its removal should the need ever arise in the future.
Excellent info, Paul. Noted.
The tranny drawings kinda imply a narrowing of the bushing hole, but you're the first to confirm it...
I have this OCD thing about run out, straightness, to avoid any issues with buckling. The book calls out 0.020" max pushrod runout, but I shoot for 0.002" or less...
Paul is there a reason why you are not fitting a standard split spring steel bush ?
They are only £4.00 from Yambits who have them specially manufactured for them
https://yambits.co.uk/xs650-clutch-push-rod-bush-p-19299.html
Peanut, add £4 postage then it is easier and cheaper skater for me to pick one up locally and trim it a little. Bye the way Peanut, your wood drill method for bush removal worked a treat. Didn't even scratch the shaft.
TM, spent a while this morning straightening my new bimetallic push rod because it bowed a little when I pressed the steel parts on. Will test it later and report back in a year or so. That diagram you posted way back on the transmission does look to narrow a bit. I pushed a couple of drill bits in and the narrowing is in the range 8.5 - 9.0mm.
Off to tackle the adjuster nut now and make sure it is flat and smooth.
TM, spent a while this morning straightening my new bimetallic push rod because it bowed a little when I pressed the steel parts on. Will test it later and report back in a year or so. That diagram you posted way back on the transmission does look to narrow a bit. I pushed a couple of drill bits in and the narrowing is in the range 8.5 - 9.0mm.
Off to tackle the adjuster nut now and make sure it is flat and smooth.
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I doubt Yambits has these bushings made special for them. They're just a standard metric bushing. I get them from an industrial supply place for less than half of what Mike's asks for one. I've compared them to one I have from Mike's and they are identical .....
5twins, do those bearings actually fit your XS? They would be too long to fit my 81 SH. The one I used was a sintered bush I mentioned earlier. They cost £3 for two and an extra £300 for the second hand lathe - what a bargain! I will search for your type of bearings in the UK, they might be available?
A quick search gives the following available in the UK:
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/BU-Type-Bearings/MB0810BU-Split-Bearing-Bush-104146-p
Dry bearing material with good wear and friction performance over a wide range of loads, speeds and temperature conditions. It has a common structure, consisting of a metal backing bonded to a porous bronze sinter layer. BU also performs well with lubrication. MB bushes are used in agricultural equipment, construction equipment, material textile machinery, valves, and so on.
Length: 10mm
Inside Dia: 8mm
Outside Dia: 10mm
Cheaper than Yambits but similar postage.
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/BU-Type-Bearings/MB0810BU-Split-Bearing-Bush-104146-p
Dry bearing material with good wear and friction performance over a wide range of loads, speeds and temperature conditions. It has a common structure, consisting of a metal backing bonded to a porous bronze sinter layer. BU also performs well with lubrication. MB bushes are used in agricultural equipment, construction equipment, material textile machinery, valves, and so on.
Length: 10mm
Inside Dia: 8mm
Outside Dia: 10mm
Cheaper than Yambits but similar postage.
The 10's fit. Like I said, they're the exact same thing as the MikesXS offering. The single bushing in the center of my pic, the one in the bag labeled 01-2020, is from Mike's. I bought some of the 12mm long ones thinking/hoping I could use them as an upgrade, to give a bit more support to the pushrod. When the fact that they might block an oil feed hole came to light, that put a damper on that idea. But, now you say the shaft hole necks down before it gets to the oil feed hole. That means there are no worries about driving the bushing in too far and blocking the oil hole. But there is only about 11mm of depth available for the bushing. Still, that would only leave a 12mm long bushing hanging out of the end of the shaft 1mm. It still might work. I still may try one.
The analysis following a 20 miles ride to get everything nice and hot:
Dimension Notes:
- First thing I noticed was the increase in clutch play. In the past there was a very definite on or off action.
- The clutch operation seemed much smoother.
- Once heated up there did not seem to be a major difference in the ease of selecting neutral - time will tell....
- The clutch lever seems to be much easier to pull in - not once did my hand start to feel tied but I really need a 2 hour ride with lots of stopping and starting to confirm for sure.
Dimension Notes:
- Aluminium: 6068T6 OD 8.18mm rod was reduced to an OD of 7.95mm as per the old rod - this was necessary to clear the bushing. Reduction done in lathe using emery cloth (Lathe bed was suitable protected from the abrasive dust) - The rod resonated too much to turn down.
- End closest to clutch had a steel cap made from an 8.8 bolt. It was 10mm long, OD 7.95mm and drilled 6.5mm to a depth of 5mm. Pressed on with Loctite 648.
- Bushing end was capped with mild steel 68mm (2.7") long and OD 7.95mm with one end further reduced to 6.5mm for a length of 13mm as per the original to fit the clutch worm mechanism. The other end was drilled 6.5mm to a depth of 22mm and pressed on to the 6068 rod with Loctite 648. The steel was then polished to avoid damaging the oil seal.
- The push rod was left 16 hours for the Loctite to set to near full strength then each end dimpled very slightly on the lathe.
- The interference hit between the aluminium and steel sections were approximately 0.01 - 0.02mm.
- Total length of finished push rod 242.5mm as per my original two rods plus one ball bearing.
