Community Wire Diagram :: Trying new approach

[Rlauchard]

Hi all,

I wanted to try a visual approach that bridges XSLeo's 'What happens when you turn your key on' and the wiring diagrams that I see all over the site. I also want to use this to build my wiring diagram.

One of my challenges is not understanding wiring fully, how things flow, etc. I wanted to start simple and as I hash the small things out verbally and visually. If you are willing to participate, it is appreciated. Hope that this will work out.

What I am wiring:
- headlight low/high
- front and rear turn signals
- speedo
- horn
- left control with lights, turn signals, horn
- right control with kill switch and electric start
- key
- pamco ignition
- oem alternator
- rectifier
- battery
- electric start
- tail light/brake light
- blade type fuses
- coil

The first step that I wanted to look at was wiring the following:
1. From the battery to the starter relay to the starter
2. From the battery to the rectifier to the key
3. From the key to the fuses, to the tail light

Here are my questions/callouts as I understand this stuff.

1. I am running a blade type fuse box...it has a 'power in post' as I like to call it...it is this. I believe with this, I need to run my key power to the 'power post', then run all power to the other items (which I will update later) from the fuse box.
2. With the above being said, I am assuming that I have to have an inline fuse of 20 amps in front of the key/rectifier coming directly off the battery.
3. I am assuming 6 gauge wires from the battery to the starter relay to the starter motor. I am assuming 16 gauge wires throughout the bike. Right now...what gauge wire should be used from the battery to the 20 amp inline fuse? Is that 16 as well?
4. I am putting a block arrow to show flow of current so that I can fully understand how things are working together.

So, for this round of community participation of wiring a bike, here are the outstanding questions:
1. Do I have this correct so far?
2. What gauge wire should I use from the battery to the 20 amp inline fuse?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Nice start for a harness-oriented diagram. I like the 'flow' indicators, could be tidyier if they were in-line instead of alongside. Doesn't this model require some sort of starter safety relay?

 

[Rlauchard]

My understanding was that a starter safety relay was to prevent engaging the starter while it's running. It's a plus, but not required. I still have it...and open for thoughts. How about the 2 questions?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Total draw of your electronics (except starter) probably won't exceed 10 amps, and that will be supplied by the charging system (after the fuse), so battery draw will be max during starting, before charging, so I see no problem with 16 guage battery-to-fuse, unless you'll have all lighting on while starting, so a 14 may help there.

 

[retiredgentleman]

You need to change the direction of current flow for the rectifier. Also in the line from the battery + to the 20 amp fuse, you should have an arrow that's double headed, as the current can flow both directions.

16 gauge wire should be fine for most wiring. 18 gauge wire can be used for individual circuits such as signals, horn, tail light etc. Be sure to use 16 gauge for the headlight circuit.

Some lads use 14 gauge wire from the battery to the 20 amp fuse, from the 20 amp fuse to the key switch, from the rectifier to the key switch, and from the key switch to the fuse panel. That gauge would minimize voltage drops.

Different wire gauges have been used, so you get to choose what you like. The stock Yamaha wiring harness used mostly all 18 gauge, and that seemed to work for many years. However, I've seen headlight 18 gauge wiring which melted the insulation due to the higher headlight current.

 

[Rlauchard]

OK...made some updates and additions. I really think that this is great...it's going to help me make sense of exactly what is going on.

Additions:
1. Added general note of 16 gauge wires unless otherwise specified on the diagram
2. Changed the name of the rectifier to regulator/rectifier
3. Made a double ended arrow from the battery to the 20 amp fuse (question below)
4. Reversed the flow from the regulator/rectifier (question below)
5. Added a 16 gauge wire from the key to the regulator/rectifier (question below)
6. Added the alternator wires/ground/yellow capped wire (clarifying question below)
7. Added the dashed blue wire that goes from the start button on the right hand control to the starter solenoid (question below)

Questions:
1. The red wire from the reg/rec has power flowing OUT on it...I'm assuming that this is how the battery gets charged from the alternator (stator+rotor)?
2. The brown wire from the key to the reg/rec, should this be a 14ga instead?
3. The brown wire from the key to the reg/rec, this is what supplies power to the reg/rec to generate the juice to feed back on the red wire to the battery?
4. The yellow wire is capped because I removed the RLU...is that terminology correct?
5. When the start button is pressed, a current flows TO the starter solenoid, closes the circuit and enables the outbound current to the starter? And thus, when the start button is released, the circuit is open and the current to the starter stops. Do I have that right?

Thanks for the input and answers!

 

[peanut]

My understanding was that a starter safety relay was to prevent engaging the starter while it's running. It's a plus, but not required. )

I'd be interested to know what the result would be of accidentally hitting the starter button with your gloves whilst hammering on at 30mph+

 

[Rlauchard]

I'd be interested to know what the result would be of accidentally hitting the starter button with your gloves whilst hammering on at 30mph+

My intelligence is limited to posts on this site. I have read multiple threads of people removing the starter relay....if it is suggested that this is a bad thing...well...let a brother know! I'm open to putting in those items that are needed and removing those that aren't. Peanut...no offence meant by this..but are you stating in a clever way that the safety relay is needed? I couldn't tell you what would happen at 30 mph....my guess is what...gear stripping and immediate 'internal braking' which could cause a sore ass or more?

 

[retiredgentleman]

OK...made some updates and additions. I really think that this is great...it's going to help me make sense of exactly what is going on.

Additions:
1. Added general note of 16 gauge wires unless otherwise specified on the diagram
2. Changed the name of the rectifier to regulator/rectifier
3. Made a double ended arrow from the battery to the 20 amp fuse (question below)
4. Reversed the flow from the regulator/rectifier (question below)
5. Added a 16 gauge wire from the key to the regulator/rectifier (question below)
6. Added the alternator wires/ground/yellow capped wire (clarifying question below)
7. Added the dashed blue wire that goes from the start button on the right hand control to the starter solenoid (question below)

Questions:
1. The red wire from the reg/rec has power flowing OUT on it...I'm assuming that this is how the battery gets charged from the alternator (stator+rotor)?
2. The brown wire from the key to the reg/rec, should this be a 14ga instead?
3. The brown wire from the key to the reg/rec, this is what supplies power to the reg/rec to generate the juice to feed back on the red wire to the battery?
4. The yellow wire is capped because I removed the RLU...is that terminology correct?
5. When the start button is pressed, a current flows TO the starter solenoid, closes the circuit and enables the outbound current to the starter? And thus, when the start button is released, the circuit is open and the current to the starter stops. Do I have that right?

Thanks for the input and answers!

1. Yes, the current charges the battery and supplies the current to run the various bike loads.

2. 16 gauge is fine

3. The brown wire provides the reference voltage for the regulator, so the regulator knows how to regulate. That same brown wire goes to the right inner brush to supply the current for the rotor electro-magnet. (refers to 1980 to 1983 alternators only)

4.The yellow is capped because you're not using the Safety Relay.

5.Yes, what you are saying is correct. However, your release of the starter button may not be as quick as a relay. That is why the Safety Relay was put there by Yamaha. As soon as the alternator produces voltage, the starter motor is automatically shut off.

I recommend you use the Safety Relay, but many lads do not, so its your choice.

 

[peanut]

My intelligence is limited to posts on this site. I have read multiple threads of people removing the starter relay....if it is suggested that this is a bad thing...well...let a brother know! I'm open to putting in those items that are needed and removing those that aren't. Peanut...no offence meant by this..but are you stating in a clever way that the safety relay is needed? I couldn't tell you what would happen at 30 mph....my guess is what...gear stripping and immediate 'internal braking' which could cause a sore ass or more?

Yeah sorry it was a bit of a smartass answer wasn't it.

I guess its a bit like choosing not to wear a helmet .

Its ok as long as you never come off .

I think a lot of folk struggle to understand electrical schematics and componants so there is a strong motivation to simplify the wiring as far as possible so that there is less to go wrong and less to troubleshoot when it does go wrong ..

Thats all well and good to a point but that has to be balanced with a potential loss of both safety features and perhaps reliability etc .

I find electrical circuits easy to understand so I have no problems in that respect . I would recommend keeping the safety relay because of the potential risk for expensive damage and personal safety.

 

[Rlauchard]

Thanks peanut...and retiredgentleman...that's what I'm hoping to use this thread for...understanding of how it works...not just which wires go where. I like safety...my wife enforces it...safety relay it is...I'll work to add it in...thanks to you both!

 

[peanut]

looking at your list of componants you wish to include it might be an awful lot simpler if you work the other way round ....photocopy a standard schematic then tipex out what you don't want .

What you have left you can then redraw as your own loom. That way everything should work as it should and it will be easier to troubleshoot.

 

[Rlauchard]

Version 3....

I want to take a small break after this iteration to get my head straight and make sure I get it...hopefully if anyone sees any issues, I can get it fixed before moving forward.

Added:
1. Horn circuit and wired to left controls
2. Safety relay
3. The red power line to the rotor (question below)
4. On/Off switch on the right controls
5. Pamco wiring (question below)

Questions:
1. If the red wire that is currently on my inner brush on the rotor, which is where the power is supplied...what is the green wire that feeds back to the rect/reg?
2. I can't for the life of me remember where the red/white wire comes from for the Pamco...is that from the on/off switch to stop the coil from firing, or is it tied in to the safety relay? I can't remember!

 

[Rlauchard]

looking at your list of componants you wish to include it might be an awful lot simpler if you work the other way round ....photocopy a standard schematic then tipex out what you don't want .

What you have left you can then redraw as your own loom. That way everything should work as it should and it will be easier to troubleshoot.

Simpler yes, but if I don't compartmentalize all of this, I'll never truly understand. I want to know as close as possible the ins & outs of how this works...and since i'm wiring from scratch, I'll be able to diagnose dumb issues better.

It's just the way my mind works.

 

[peanut]

Version 3....


Questions:
1. If the red wire that is currently on my inner brush on the rotor, which is where the power is supplied...what is the green wire that feeds back to the rect/reg?
2. I can't for the life of me remember where the red/white wire comes from for the Pamco...is that from the on/off switch to stop the coil from firing, or is it tied in to the safety relay? I can't remember!

the 12v+ live feed to the rotor on 1980+ bikes(red wire) goes to the inner brush (and inner rotor ring) the return from the outer rotor ring (green wire )goes to ground ,via the regulator/rectifier which, (depending on the battery charge and electrical load ) grounds the outer rotor ring (green wire) thereby forming a circuit and energising the field in the rotor.

The red/white wires are generally part of the circuit which supplies the coils ,starter motor solenoid (relay) and safety relay and kill switch. It's too late for me to check now ,I'll look in the morning if you haven't had a reply before then

 

[XSLeo]

Peanut, you described the green wire to ground wrong. The green wire goes to the regulator half of the reg/rec not the rectifier half.
As described the power flows to the brush on the red wire, I'd change that to a brown wire, save confusion, I like to match the stock colors as much as I can.
Ok back to the power flow. From the hot brush through the rotor out the green wire to the reg. The reg reads the voltage on the brown wire. If the voltage is below the preset of 14.5 it turns the transistor on and this grounds the green wire. This lets current flow through the rotor to excite the stator into creating electricity.
In your last diagram the brown wire to the reg should branch off and send power to the hot brush. It doesn't get it from the red wire from the reg.
Coming of the key switch the blue to tail light is good.
Power off the fuse block to the horn to the switch then ground is right.
Power off the fuse to the right side control is right. Power from the right side control to the safety relay is right. There should be a red/white wire from the S/F to the starter relay.
From the S/F the blue/white to the start button then ground is right. On the Pamco where the ? is run a red/white wire over to and hook into the red/white wire from the right side control on/off switch.
Looks ok so far.Leo

 

[XSLeo]

Almost forgot. On the wire gauge, I just hook one wire from the main inline fuse holder to the positive off the battery, the other wire off the fuse holder to the switch. My new switch had 14 ga wires on it. So the fuse wire just got spliced to a switch wire. The other switch wire to the power input bolt on the 6 fuse block. From the fuse block to the individual circuits I used 16 ga on the heavier draw circuits, like the headlight, horn and to the turn signals.
Other lighting that has a lesser draw gets 18 ga wire.
Smaller ga wire has more flexibility than heavier wire.
Leo

 

[peanut]

Peanut, you described the green wire to ground wrong. The green wire goes to the regulator half of the reg/rec not the rectifier half.
.Leo

yeah I was tired and just about to go to bed . of course its the regulator that regulates the grounding of the circuit just a typo from a tired brainsorry for any confusion.

The basic principle of my description is perfectly correct though Leo,, although I didn't see the need to go into the n'th degree of explanation of the charging operation.

 

[Rlauchard]

Thanks for your patience and thoroughness peanut & leo. Leo....I'm not sure if that last post was just a general FYI or if there is something you are calling out on the diagram....assuming the former.

Updated....version 4.

Added:
1. Tied the red/white wire to the on/off switch. (clarifying question below)
2. Sent power from brown (key) wire directly to inner brush of the alternator.
3. Added red/white wire from safety relay to starter solenoid.

Question:
1. The on/off switch will essentially interrupt power flow to the coil, thus shutting off the bike? Is that how it works, in the most basic of terms?

Time to take a break, do some travelling and be thankful for a bunch of stuff...Happy Thanksgiving if you celebrate it.

 

[retiredgentleman]

the 12v+ live feed to the rotor (red wire) usually goes to the outer brush (and outer rotor ring) the return from the inner rotor ring (green wire )goes to ground ,via the rectifier which, (depending on the battery charge and electrical load ) grounds the inner rotor ring (green wire) therby forming a circuit and energising the field in the rotor.

The red/white wires are generally part of the circuit which supplies the coils ,starter motor solenoid (relay) and safety relay and kill switch. It's too late for me to check now ,I'll look in the morning if you haven't had a reply before then

Peanut, you should correct this post, so that other readers are not confused. The 12 volt + feed to the rotor connects to the inner brush, and returns from the outer brush to the regulator. (reference 1980 to 83 alternators).