dead horse... (Charging)

[fullashit]

Hi Everyone,

I know this has been discussed at great length here and I have spent the last week reading everything I could find online and on this site and I believe I have it nailed but don't want to buy another part without making sure.

I have an '80 xs650 special. I just this spring installed the mikes xs (xs direct here ) Basic pamco ignition/ charging kit with the pamco PMA. I've done about 6000Kms on this set up with no issues then after the bike started running crappy I checked my battery and was at 11.9v and not charging at any rpm. I replaced the battery and tested it for voltage drop overnight and with a load on another bike and it's good. I tested continuity on all the wires in the charging system and all was good. I tested the resistance of the stator and got readings of .4ohms across all 3 white wires which to my understanding is a touch low but I have a cheapo multimeter. SO I'm thinking it's the regulator but it doesn't look burnt around the wires at all. I checked all the wires around the stator and they all look good although it is all a dark copper colour and no longer has it's green highlights! I tried the slap test but it seems as though that the pma is isolated and that test doesn't work ????
Any insight would be appreciated. I am not with the bike until Friday so i wont be able to do ant tests until then just asking now so if I need parts I can get em!

Cheers!

 

[fredintoon]

Hi fullashit,
um, PMA means Permanent Magnet Alternator so unless it's magnet is totally de-Gaussed it'll always suck a feeler gauge towards it but that won't tell you nothin'.
If you still have the stock parts rip all that PMA shit outa there and go back to stock, eh?

 

[fullashit]

Thanks Fredintoon... It's magnetic on the inside but not on the outside! The part description reads "The magnets are sealed inside the rotor so I thought perhaps that's why it is not magnetized on the outside! I have the original parts but they are not in good condition and I bought this system to upgrade and certainly do not want to go back if I can figure out what the issue is.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi fullashit,
From what you say your stator may still work OK but it's wiring got cooked.
Overheated stator wires are usually caused by faults down line from them.
Dunno how you'd check a reg/rect but that's where I'd start looking.
IMHO the pamco/PMA thing ain't an upgrade, it's a substitution.
It's what you do to keep the bike running when you can't find new stock parts.
And they work just fine although the several posts regarding their failures tell me they are kinda fragile.

 

[fullashit]

Thanks fredintoon... I did continuity tests on all the wires and they are all good. I replaced the connectors with my own soldered ones to be sure. This is my first XS and everywhere I looked I read that the factory charging system was a weak point and mine was not in good shape so that's why I went with the Pamco! I have also read about a bunch of issues with the Pamco but they all seem to be installer issues either incorrectly wired or not following the precautions and burning them out. At this point I'd hate to replace all tha pamco stuff with factory stuff just because of the money spent already. I paid more for that kit than the rest of my build all together including the price of the bike. So... even if it was an error purchasing the Pamco I'd still like to figure it out. I appreciate your time helping out.

 

[pamcopete]

fullashit,

The PMA is not a PAMCO product. The kit you bought has a PAMCO ignition included, but we do not make, sell, manufacture, service or install or have anything to do with PMA's.

 

[XSLeo]

It does sound like you over heated the stator. It may still work, I can't say for sure if it's ok or not. Did you also test from the three stator wires to ground? The wire to wire readings only tell you if the windings are ok, they may still be shorting to ground.
On the stock reg/rec you can test the rectifier side but not the regulator side. I don't know if you can test a PMA reg/rec the same way.
The PMA Mike's sells is an XS Charge PMA. You might try contacting them.
It may have a warranty.
Leo.

 

[fullashit]

pamcopete... thanks for the info I was completely unaware! My ignition is working terrific so... thanks

XS Leo... I did not do a test from the stator wires to ground I'll do that next weekend. I found ways to test the factory reg/rec I'll have to revisit that as well. I'll also check with XS Charge. Thank you for the information. In the meantime I'll have to ride my beat up old Kawi 440... the horror! haha.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - This is my first XS and everywhere I looked I read that the factory charging system was a weak point and mine was not in good shape so that's why I went with the Pamco! I have also read about a bunch of issues with the Pamco but they all seem to be installer issues either incorrectly wired or not following the precautions and burning them out. - - -

Hi fullashit,
My factory electrics work just fine but the factory stuff does need to be kept up and it can't be denied that the very newest factory gear is over 30 years old and nothin' lasts forever, eh?
As your stock electrics came to you in poor shape swapping them for pamco electronic ignition and a PMA charging system was a reasonable thing to do.
Hopefully your charging problem is easy to find and inexpensive to fix.
Had a charging failure on my XS11 one time.
Replaced rotor, stator and reg/rect and still no charge.
Only thing left to change was the wiring harness.
Got the old one half off before I found that Mr Stupid had trapped a wire under a clamp when I'd replaced the PO's bent beans can coil bracket with something sturdier.
Took half the riding season for the insulation to extrude off the wire and short out the charging current to ground.
Cost me a fair bit to get a complete spare XS11 charging system that the next owner will be glad of should I ever decide to sell the bike.

 

[fullashit]

fredintoon...
haha I checked the wiring sooo many times because Mr. Stupid works on my bike too. I have a new xs direct harness but my intention is to chop it and simplify as I question the quality of it. Now that I`ve learned the PMA is not a pamco product I`m concerned but I`ll spend some time sleuthing this weekend. I have to be sure I have quality parts as I use this bike to camp and go off road with dirt rocks and mud so it needs to be stout. I think it`s off the road til next spring anyway we`re already hitting the low 40`s here in the morning so I only have a month or so of riding and I`ll use my kawi. Once the temps get below freezing I`ll only ride the honda xl125 as it`s safer to fall over with haha.
Gotta say I`ve been on many forums over the years and this one is very welcoming and friendly... glad to be here and despite the issue I`m loving my xs.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - I checked the wiring sooo many times because Mr. Stupid works on my bike too. - - -

Hi fullashit,
I guess 'most everybody has an inner Mr Stupid but he can be dealt with if you are careful.
Dealing with Brother Bighammer is more stressful.
BTW, your PMA is most likely from Hugh's Handbuilt. He's findable through this list and reckoned to be a standup guy.

 

[fullashit]

Haha awesome... Thanks again for the help on this!