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Do we care about the enviroment !!! ????

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by 650Skull, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. FLEA

    FLEA XS650 Junkie

     
    thuban, Jim and Greyandridin like this.
  2. DaveO

    DaveO XS650 Addict

    Yes, or the the 2008 food riots caused by the US growing corn for bio-fuels.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/jul/03/biofuels.renewableenergy
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=2008+food+riots&va=z&t=hk&iax=images&ia=images

    Or the fact that the "wood pellet generated electricity" brought the Northern Ireland Assembly down in a "cash for ash" scandal. Its did not sit for nearly three years. (Interestingly, much was being made of Boris Johnson's proroguing (closing ) of parliament at the time (three days) in order to push through Brexit. The pro-EU climate-concerned media did not mind (or mention) there was no government at all in NI for three years).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal

    Or that UK 2008 tax incentives to encourage diesel car use (diesels get better mileage.) in an attempt to meet CO2 targets) resulted in a predicable glut of diesel cars with attendant nitrous oxide and particulate pollution.

    Or that the German government trying to cut CO2 (and pushed by greens) raised its wind turbine generating capacity to approaching 50% with the result that is is now almost entirely dependent on burning lignite (brown coal) which it razes village and tears down cathedrals to get at. It has the second highest cost electricity in Europe and is being fined by the EU for failing to meet CO2 targets.

    Let's not talk about the fact that 80% of all world energy use is from fossil fuels and wood burning. Or that despite trillions invested energy production by wind turbines and solar panels account for 0% the the nearest whole number. (0.46% WEA) or that much of the third world cooks with coal, wood or animal dung.

    I am gratified to learn, though, that my pension fund has divested from "thermal coal". This is coal we burn as distinct from coal we use for other purposes. (We use high quality coal for example to create silicon. Two parts coal to one part quartz is heated to 2000 degrees (they don't use windmills). The products are silicon and CO2 ) But this is fine because the silicon is needed for mobile phones, electric cars and wind turbines.

    As I say, the intentions of environmentalism are good. The outcomes are bad.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
    MaxPete, MrBultaco, nj1639 and 2 others like this.
  3. .....and then there's the reoccurring global catastrophes roughly every 12,068 (roughly? Ha) years in conjunction with magnetic pole reversal that according to some is just a couple decades away.
    Suspicious Observors.
    Now that's a rabbit hole.
     
  4. xjwmx

    xjwmx It's just the unknown. Top Contributor

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    at least the physical environment is doing better than the mental environment
     
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  5. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    Depends on if you have a view............Thread heading.....no u in we

    1979...........40 years ago........must be changes since then.......
     
  6. thuban

    thuban Horse Scratcher XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    The Environment. The biggest abusers of the environment is BIG BUSINESS shielded by governments on OUR behalf. I don't care whether it's auto production and fuel to run them, people ain't gona walk. As long as people buy the things and make big business, money, there is gona be smog over your city. There is gona be water sucked out of the ground in California to keep people fed, till the water is gone. Then the farmer cries cause he's going to lose the farm that's been in his family for three generations. Greedy bastard should have thought of that. Well he did but people were throwing money at him in a global market place; there hungry! What's a guy to do? Maybe he'll get a government bail out?
    Everybody feels sorry for, or repulsed by, the homeless on the street. I don't see volunteers wanting to change places with them and yet, they have a small environmental foot print. So for the extremes of Mr. and Mrs. got rocks, to the homeless person on the street, I'll take a middle of the road. The universe really does not care in which plastic can I throw your bottle. The problem with the Environment is PEOPLE. Good luck with that. ( For give me. Four whiskeys! Sometimes too much drink is not enough.)
     
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  7. NashGTI

    NashGTI XS650 Addict

    People will do what's right so long as it's convenient for them. The problem is that there are typically large numbers of other people with vested interests in making what's right as inconvenient as possible.
     
    MaxPete likes this.
  8. xjwmx

    xjwmx It's just the unknown. Top Contributor

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    no 'u' in we eh? i have some stories about how the environment around here has improved literally immeasurably since '79, stories about visible smoke in the air 24/7, creeks and rivers killed by open dumps, entire mountain ranges striped of trees by armies of bulldozers, but it would be all about me instead of all about you, so i might as well pass
     
  9. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    So true.....my local council spent money on recycling bins.........we now have a small rubbish bin and the original, (large), rubbish bin is designated for recycling...........message from council in the postal drop states..........

    The refuse truck has a driver operated laze,r that can determine if the recycling bin has been used for non recyclable materials. If this has been found to have happened we, (council), will inform the householder to ensure this doesn't happen again. If the problem persists the bin will not be picked up...............refuse truck has 2 compartments, one for rubbish and the other for recycling...............

    here's the crux............no recycling plants in Queensland..........All the rubbish from both the waste, and recycling bin goes into the same pile and dumped into the local landfill......................looks good on paper, done the right thing........problem is there is no facility for doing the right thing..........Cost to the ratepayer and the clean-away contractor charges more because the truck has to have the capability for the 2 types of rubbish.........



    .
     
  10. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    .Deepwater Horizon.........Was a lesson learned..........
    map of the last 30 years of oil spills and NOAA involvement
    https://response.restoration.noaa.g...ource-damage-assessment-settlements-1990-2019

    Any gains repealed.......
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/interior-drilling-florida-waters-november-election-310595

    May 2019
    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-adopted-after-bp-deepwater-horizon-disaster

    A small time line and affects
    http://www.oilspillhub.org/ This site, although there, does not have active videos.......

    12 months
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/6/110623-nsf-oil-wereley-video/
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/7/110726-nsf-oil-impact-lipid-video/

    9 years later
    https://phys.org/news/2019-04-impacts-deepwater-horizon-oil.html

    7 years........Affects on humans as well as Ecosystems that again affect humans, work, health and economic environment
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5112119/

    10 years
    Quick read
    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...horizon-disaster-oil-worse-impact-study-finds
    same thing by a scientific read
    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/7/eaaw8863

    https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/decade-later-advances-oil-spill-science-deepwater-horizon
    Links to more info on other spills and associated tools
    https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/sitemap

    2020
    Imagine if the initial and ongoing cost could have be utilized for innovation and discovery in another direction.......What could have been discovered
    https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/environmental-restoration

    Glossery
    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...horizon-disaster-oil-worse-impact-study-finds
    More detailed
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...l-spill-still-dont-know-effects-decade-later/

    Science page
    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/7/eaaw8863

    With compounding impacts.
    https://www.nola.com/news/environment/article_cc97f9b0-a73a-11ea-8d4f-ab66a6c28bf5.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
    MaxPete and Jim like this.
  11. DaveO

    DaveO XS650 Addict

    @
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  12. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    What happened to your post..........read a couple of links...........hadn't got anywhere near through all..........

    One of the links pointing out that contact lens impact on plastic wast was very illuminating.....We, (companies,govt), pat ourselves on the back for banning single use plastics and tout out how much plastic is saved from landfills and oceans..........

    "We" forget, or there is very little mention of other aspects of plastics,( micro beads are in the forefront but what is being done about them)........Now go out and whipper sniper the yard and roadside curb.......Just how much are these machines are adding to the problem.....?????....

    Every house hold has one, councils use them extensively, around here they use them extensively to trim overgrowth along the beachfront, parks, everywhere.....To many places, where once a mower would have been used.........

    Quite a good opinion on plastics and asks some good questions....... Facts researched Noted at the bottom.
    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/09/2008009117
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  13. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    More on Oil.......Don't worry i'm not just picking on North America.........(Aus to come, that will be more about coal and affects)...........Just happened to happen a couple of days after the post on Deepwater horizon

    Is it proof that renewable energy are more economically viable than oil.........
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...bp-prove-oil-giant-knows-reserves-oil-and-gas


    latest spill......One day ago.........just a small one and no estimates, as of this article...........only from a 1" line........
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/m...ipeline-is-shut-after-spill-in-bc/ar-BB15rDyf

    Today ......estimates between 700 and 1200 barrels............
    https://apnews.com/22f8c8f865ead361406ae1bbf433e1af

    years ago
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-pipeline-leak-idUSKBN1572UJ

    2015 and going back 5 spills......
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/alberta-pipelines-5-major-oil-spills-in-recent-history-1.3156604
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  14. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    The heading is inclusive as to we, as in anyone who wants to add there thoughts information or stories.............its not..........Quote] "depending on what you mean by the environment"............

    pass if you want........or tell a story......
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
    Jim likes this.
  15. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  16. DaveO

    DaveO XS650 Addict

    Went back to make an edit and lost the post. :)
     
  17. MaxPete

    MaxPete Lucille, Betty & Demi - I suggest but THEY decide. XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    ...and Keith Richards.
     
  18. 650Skull

    650Skull SSSSSSSSSlither Top Contributor

    https://carbontracker.org/supporting-stranding-ukefs-oil-finance-failing-the-paris-test/

    An alternative.......
    [​IMG]
    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2020/scientific-collaboration-buoys-offshore-wind.html

    This leads to another question......Vibration or harmonic waves.......What is the affect of these on ocean species.........Whales loose their hearing when ships are passing.
    .https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whales-shipping-ninety-percent-of-everything-excerpt/

    From the link above........How Sept 2011 had an affect on whale stress

    Sniffer dogs sniff. If they can sniff on land, why not on water? ....Davenport gets her dogs from city pounds or humane societies, because the worst pets often make the best sniffer dogs: they are rambunctious and lively and have a strong desire to play. .......... The first dog.... was a three-year-old rottweiler.....He was trained, on land at first, to detect the scent of a right whale. Then they went to sea along with a small platform............ the platform, the dog, and the scientist went to sea; and the dog had to find the platform. Everybody was learning. The dog had to learn not to jump out of the boat when it tracked the scent. Rolland had to learn to read the dog’s signals when it zeroed in on the scent: pricked ears, a moving tail, a different facial expression, quicker breathing.

    Scat collection rates rose significantly, allowing Rolland to track stress hormones in the right whale population. They also enabled her to make one of the biggest breakthroughs in ocean noise research in de cades. ...........An inadvertent illumination, a lucky fleeting thought. Rolland hadn’t anticipated that whales might be damaged by noise, concentrating instead on causes of stress such as red tides, toxins, and disease. Then in 2009, she attended a workshop organized by the U.S. Office for Naval Research on the effect of underwater noise on ocean creatures. Rolland says that science is all about the question you are asking and she began to ask a new question. She had ten years of stress data and she started to look back through it. Susan Parkes, an acoustic data specialist, mentioned how much quieter the ocean had been after 9/11.........

    On September 11, 2001, she was about to set out on a boat into the Bay of Fundy, ............ high pressure, very low winds. She would be foolish not to go out. But still, in the morning, it was foggy, so the six o’clock departure time was postponed........then someone on the dock said a plane had hit the World Trade Center in New York City. They rushed back to watch television ...........we sat around looking at each other and said, we can’t just dissolve into a heap. We have to get on with our lives.” So they got on their boats and went out to sea. It was weird. There were no whale-watching boats or fishing vessels. There were no planes flying overhead. There were no container ships passing to and from the Cape Cod Canal or in and out of Boston. There was just water and silence. “It was very much like we were the only ones out there with the whales. It was a remarkable experience.”

    For the whales, it was even more remarkable—they were swimming in a preindustrial ocean. Rolland was on an ocean quieter than it had been for over a century. It stayed that way for most of the week. After the noise workshop, when she checked data for the eleventh, twelfth, and thirteenth of September, she was shocked. Usually, researching what noise does to right whales is extremely difficult. “You’re not able to take the noise away and then put it back and see if there is a response by the animal.” Even if you analyze hormones, the results can be inconclusive: stress markers such as glucocorticoids could be produced for other reasons. But the message of the quiet ocean data was unmistakable. During the week that ships were stilled, underwater noise was lower by 6 decibels, and the levels of whales’ glucocorticoids (stress-related fecal hormone metabolites) were lower, too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020

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