E3 Spark Plugs

Byookanun said:
Sorry for the typo. Meant to say marketing company.



You my friend may be considered naive...
Click to expand...

I've been called worse than that.:)

Since you're in marketing, this is your chance to review these E3 plugs and report back to us here on the site.

Let us know how powerful your engine is now, how easy it is to start, and what the mpg or km/l you get now. Buy some E3 plugs and install them. Drive the bike as you normally would for a month or two, and come back with results that will convince me to buy these superior spark plugs.
 
pamcopete said:
The reason that two plugs are better than one in your typical aircraft engine is because the magnetos are just barely adequate to fire the mixture by themselves. It's not so much an improvement as a necessity. It's the same reason that many twin engine aircraft have two engines. It's not so much about redundancy as it is the fact that the airplane cannot climb on one engine. I used to do practice engine outs in my Skymaster with a real feathered shutdown and even lightly loaded it could barely climb, especially on the front engine.

skymaster2.jpg
Click to expand...

Ah, the ol' Skydisaster. :) Yes, I would have to agree that aircraft cylinders are designed for two plugs, and run best with both firing, but I dont know if I would go as far as to say a single magneto is barely adequate to fire the mixture.
But enough about aircraft Pete, how about an answer about Pamco ignitions on my thread? (Once again, pardon the hijack to this threads starter)

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36814
 
I don't feel fancy, expensive spark plugs are a smart choice for this bike. It's an old, crude engine design and very tough on plugs, wearing them rather quickly. When I had points and the wimpy stock coils, I was lucky to get 2K miles on a set of plugs before I could visibly see wear on them. Now with a Pamco and better coil, I'm going 4 to 5K miles. I don't mind changing my $2 NGKs that often. I would mind changing $8 to $10 fancy plugs that much. And I do think they will wear quickly too, because of the mentioned old engine design.

Years ago, I was coming home from a bike rally on one of my BMWs. The bike seemed to be struggling a bit at 70mph and above. When I got home, of course the first thing I did was check the plugs. They looked fine, as they always did, nice color and very clean. For some reason I decided to compare one side by side to some new plugs I had on hand. That's when I noticed the wear. The center electrode on the old plug was barely half as tall as the new one. I checked my log and saw that these plugs had been in there for a bit over 10K miles. New plugs fixed the bike right up. The old ones were plain worn out. After that, I never tried to push my plugs that far again. I keep new ones on the shelf so I can do the side by side comparo. When I see that center electrode getting shorter, I replace them.
 
"It's an old, crude engine design and very tough on plugs, wearing them rather quickly. When I had points and the wimpy stock coils, I was lucky to get 2K miles on a set of plugs before I could visibly see wear on them."

I've never had that problem on any xs650. Your carbs must be crap or something.
 
Yep, my carbs must be crap, I'll get right on that, lol.
 
Back in the later 70's, ND introduced their u-groove sparkplug. A noticeable improvement. We sold and installed boatloads of those things. Worked great, but lost their gains after several hundred miles.

There's an electrical phenomenon in air-gap conductors that states that the electron field strength in a conductor is greatest at sharp edges, corners, and points, where the angular exposure to the surrounding dialectric is greatest. It's at these edges where the spark is most likely to initiate.

Examining those used u-groove plugs showed that the sharp edges of the u-groove channel had rounded/smoothed over, lost the sharp edge.

I see the same principle employed in various new plug designs, v-groove, small diameter electrodes, splitfire, ...etc. And, it does work. Sharp edges, more edges.

Back in the '60s, I mini-duplicated Seversky's ion-propulsion design, utilizing sharp points, and found that the sharper I made the points, the less voltage was required to ionize the air. Same principle used in the new-generation electron microscopes.

So, nowadays, I look at these plug designs and make note of the edges.

Now we have this E3 thing, Lookit all the edges. But like the u-grooves and 5twins worn plugs story, those sharp edges will round off, then what do you have?

I have more confidence in the precious metals fine-wire designs ability to maintain that pointed, high electron field strength...
 
pamcopete said:
Wait..wait...you insult my trusty Skyblender and then you want me to answer a question? :doh:
Click to expand...

No insult intended. I have had my hands inside a few of those things, just a lot going on inside those cowlings! And I guess my question might not be directly about Pamco, just how it interfaces with other systems. :)
 
That's the thing with those worn plugs - they still looked quite sharp edged at the top of that center electrode. That's something I had learned to look for. We rode two stroke street bikes back then and talk about plug wear ..... the plugs in those bikes wore the sharp edges off the top of the electrode, wore it shorter, and wore it off at an angle. It was easy to see when they were toast, lol.
 
ccline746pk said:
No insult intended. I have had my hands inside a few of those things, just a lot going on inside those cowlings! And I guess my question might not be directly about Pamco, just how it interfaces with other systems. :)
Click to expand...

There is no relationship between a PAMCO and heated gloves. As for an increase in MPG, I have conducted tests that do show improved gas mileage with different choices of spark plug and coils.
 
Things to do when you have incurable insomnia.

Count sheep.

Or

Research something like the strange E3 part numbering system.

E3 sparkplugs that will screw into Yamaha XS650heads

Thread Diameter = 14mm
Thread Pitch = 1.25mm
Thread Length = 19mm (3/4")
Resistor types only

It appears that the number of legs supporting their "Diamond Fire" ground electrode defines the intended severity of application. Single leg for lawnmowers, two legs for motorcycles, three legs for cars. The center electrode can be fully rebated, like the old B8ES plugs, partially projected, or fully projected. The E3 recommended plug is a mid-projected tip. The longer projected versions may not work in our XS650 engines, due to physical contact with the pistons, or from piston blocking of the "Diamond Fire" blast nozzle.

Single ground leg (Lawn & Garden)
E3.18 - (13/16") socket, HOT (Champion 3-7, NGK 5-7) (mid-projected tip)
E3.20 - (5/8") socket, HOT (Champion 12-14, NGK 4-6) (full-projected tip)
E3.22 - (13/16") socket, HOT (Champion 9-12, NGK 5-7) (full-projected tip)

Dual ground legs (Motorsports, Motorcycle)
E3.31 - (13/16") socket, COLD (Champion 4-7, NGK 7-10) (non-projected tip)
E3.34 - (13/16") socket, HOT (Champion 9-16, NGK 2-7) (mid-projected tip) [Recommended by E3]

Triple ground legs (Automotive)
E3.46 - (13/16") socket, HOT (Champion 9-16, NGK 4-6) (full-projected tip)
E3.48 - (5/8") socket, HOT (Champion 12-14, NGK 4-6) (full-projected tip)
E3.64 - (5/8") socket, MID (Champion 8-10, NGK 6-7) (full-projected tip)


Full E3 website descriptions:

http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.18&cr=1
http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.20&cr=1
http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.22&cr=1

http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.31&cr=1
http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.34&cr=1

http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.46&cr=1
http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.48&cr=1
http://e3sparkplugs.com/parts/?part=E3.64&cr=1
 
Waiting a few more weeks to celebrate the 2 year posting of this thread would of been nice:D
My guess is not many have experienced what happens when the E3's ground electrode's fail
by breaking off,etc.
 
I thought the original poster would, by now, have come back and posted his results showing power improvements and mpg improvements. Oh well, I guess he has just been too busy in his marketing job?

Speaking of spark plugs, I just realized my same NGK bp7es plugs have been in use for about 5 years now. I think I'll buy some new ones.
 
How many miles is that RG? 10,000 - 200,000 ? Are spark plugs time limited items or use wear items?
 
Jack said:
Waiting a few more weeks to celebrate the 2 year posting of this thread would of been nice:D
Click to expand...

Now, there's an idea. A "dead thread refresh" alert. But, my insomnia couldn't wait.

Jack said:
... My guess is not many have experienced what happens when the E3's ground electrode's fail by breaking off,etc.
Click to expand...

Interesting you mention that. Studying the evolution of their catalog and cross-reference charts seems to reveal that their part numbering scheme is in plug design chronology, with the addition of two, then three support legs, and confining the original single-leg design to the less litigeous lawnmower. Anybody smell a coverup?
 
uh...since we are here, Ive occasionally regapped worn plugs with no ill effect, but haven't done it to one plug more that once.
is regapping ok?
 
Interesting thread, apart from some of the personal attacks (you guys should stop flinging shit at each other), I can add to this.....
Before my rebuild, new to motorcycle engines, I went through a few sets of B8ES, B7ES as per the manual
I ended up using 7's to get more heat, the fouling of one side more than the other was an issue, so once the plugs were found to be functioning ok I went to carbs to see where the problem might be. It was at that time I decided to rebuild the engine, when I had the carbs stripped I found the needles positioned to run rich, adjusted them, left the "hotter" 7's in and problem solved.
What is interesting is the reference to using BP7ES in this thread.....
 

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I've never been too high on the NGK's. They fouled way too easily in our old 2 stroke dirt bikes. Both AC and Champion I've had decent results with. I like the Autolite AP63 stuff. I recently put E3's in Chris's V65 and they seem to be doing just fine.
 
Just for fun, here's a comparison pic of one of my old Champion N11YC plugs (from 1975), and a pair of hotter E3.20.

E3-20-vs-N11YC-01.jpg


The business ends.

E3-20-vs-N11YC-02.jpg


A view showing that these plugs have the same length.
I'll probably try them out, just for grins.
The factory-supplied ding marks on the threads come at no extra charge.
Not what you'd expect from premium plugs...

E3-20-vs-N11YC-03.jpg
 

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