Ok. I seem to be going in circles with this project. 1982 xs650 heritage special. I have put new brushes, regulator/rectifier. Found and fixed crack in starter housing (JB weld). So oil problem is fixed. Now I have a headlight that doesn't have power. I know there is no power going to headlight plug. I have checked fuses and they are good. It looks like I don't have power coming out of the headlight relay ( looks like 2 boxes put together) on the right side post behind the battery. I was able to drive it around the block without dying, but when I try to go to second gear it seems to lose power. I have read posts, but don't seem to find the answer. If anyone has some suggestions that would be great. I am trying to do it myself, but am just about out of ideas. Want to get back to riding....
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Engine dies when put into first gear and headlight has no power.
- Thread starter mike1968
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- clutch electrical
When you start the bike and check voltage at the battery is it at about 14.5 volts above 2000 rpms? If so this means the charging system is working.
There is a yellow wire coming up from the stator that goes to the safety/ headlight relay. With the bike running check the AC voltage on this yellow wire.
The two covers on the safety relay, one is the safety relay and the other is the headlight turn on relay.
If you study a wiring diagram and trace the power back from the headlight through the dimmer switch, you will find it goes through the reserve lighting unit. The blue/yellow wire on the dimmer switch is power in from the RLU. The RLU gets power through the headlight relay on a blue/black wire. The power coming into the headlight relay comes from the headlight fuse on a red/yellow wire.
At your headlight relay test the red/yellow wire for voltage.
With the bike running test the blue/black wire for voltage.
Now test the other end of the blue/black wire at the RLU.
The blue/yellow is power out of the RLU. Test for voltage.
When you find where you no longer find voltage is where your headlight problem is.
On the engine stopping when put in gear is because of the side stand switch or relay.
To test is to remove the relay. I think it's on the left side under the side cover. It has 4 wires, a red/white, a black/white, a blue/yellow and a black.
When the side stand relay gets the signals from the neutral light and side stand switch telling it that it's in neutral and the side stand is down it lets the TCI box function normally. If you put it in gear it looses the signal from the neutral light. This means you are trying to ride with the side stand down. This is not safe so the relay grounds the black/white wire from the TCI box and stops the engine.
Leo
There is a yellow wire coming up from the stator that goes to the safety/ headlight relay. With the bike running check the AC voltage on this yellow wire.
The two covers on the safety relay, one is the safety relay and the other is the headlight turn on relay.
If you study a wiring diagram and trace the power back from the headlight through the dimmer switch, you will find it goes through the reserve lighting unit. The blue/yellow wire on the dimmer switch is power in from the RLU. The RLU gets power through the headlight relay on a blue/black wire. The power coming into the headlight relay comes from the headlight fuse on a red/yellow wire.
At your headlight relay test the red/yellow wire for voltage.
With the bike running test the blue/black wire for voltage.
Now test the other end of the blue/black wire at the RLU.
The blue/yellow is power out of the RLU. Test for voltage.
When you find where you no longer find voltage is where your headlight problem is.
On the engine stopping when put in gear is because of the side stand switch or relay.
To test is to remove the relay. I think it's on the left side under the side cover. It has 4 wires, a red/white, a black/white, a blue/yellow and a black.
When the side stand relay gets the signals from the neutral light and side stand switch telling it that it's in neutral and the side stand is down it lets the TCI box function normally. If you put it in gear it looses the signal from the neutral light. This means you are trying to ride with the side stand down. This is not safe so the relay grounds the black/white wire from the TCI box and stops the engine.
Leo
Thanks for the info XSLeo. I will check the wiring out this weekend. On the side stand relay I have a question. It looks like the side stand wiring has been taken off. I don't have any wiring going to the side stand. I have found a connection that doesn't have a piece connected to it. It just has a piece of wire going between 2 ends to create a link. It is underneath the seat on the left side. I have wondered if this is what it was for and an owner before me must've taken it off. Would this sound correct to you? Thanks again for your wiring info. I am new to this and looking at the motorcycle manual from Yamaha and the Cryler's manual (which seem to be slightly different) wasn't helping.
Here's a link for removing the RLU....
http://www.excess650.co.uk/tips & tricks.htm
http://www.excess650.co.uk/tips & tricks.htm
Most aftermarket manuals do have mistakes. I have found several in the wiring diagrams in the Clymer book. That's one reason the own more than just one manual. You can compare the too and see mistakes.
On the wires on your bike that are jumpered in the socket what color are the wires?
Leo
On the wires on your bike that are jumpered in the socket what color are the wires?
Leo
Their are Two wires coming into the connector. One is black the other is blue with yellow stripe. It's on the right side near bar. Unfortunately I know that the charging system isn't working. It was what I was going to fix and then I had the oil leak so I thought I probably should get it fixed first. I have replaced the brushes and regulator recitfier so I was down to stator or rotor. I am learning everything on the fly. Was hoping to learn this in stages. I may be in a little over my head, but thanks to everyone on this site I feel like I am making headway.
The battery has 12.89 volts not running. Snce the charging system has issues i have been using trickle charge at night. with engine running I have 11.85 volts on red yellow wire. The blue black wire has .02 voltage when running. The end at the RLU also has .02 volts. I don't get any reading coming out of the RLU. I tried jumping the blue yellow and blue black just to see if I would get light and I don't.
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I believe the blue/yellow feeds power to the left handlebar hi/lo switch, which then travels to the headlight bucket to feed the headlight on a green wire and a yellow wire. might need a light probe and start tracing back.
Ok. I will try to start tracing back. I went ahead and taped the two wires that ran to the stand switch together. This should tell me if it was the cause for stopping when I put into gear, since there isn't a stand safety switch on the bike.
Yes, I believe you have to link those two together for the bypass.
After looking at the diagram and voltage I'm wondering about the headlight relay. I don't see anything on my manuals that tell me how many volts is ok? Since me red yellow wire has 11.89, but the wire coming out (blue black) only has .02 volts. Didn't have time tonight to try to check any other wires, I hope to get out tomorrow after work. Thanks again for everyone's help.
The wires to the side stand switch are a black and a blue/yellow.
The side stand relay has 4 wires, a red/white, a black/white wire, a black wire, a blue/yellow.
The black goes to ground. The black/white comes from the TCI box.
The blue/yellow wire also runs through a diode to the neutral light wire.
With the side stand down, if you put it in gear this trips the relay. When the relay trips the black/white from the TCI box gets grounded.
If the side stand is up when you put it in gear the relay won't trip.
I don't have a switch to test so I can't say if the switch is open or closed when the side stand is down. Just removing the side stand relay is the way to delete the engine stopping when put in gear.
On the charging system you need to read the charging guide. I don't know how to link to it but if you look up near the top of the page you will find the XS650 TECH button. This leads you to a list of topics. Scroll down to the Electrical, under this heading scroll to How To: Diagnose charging system problems (charging system guide)
This has the test procedures to find out what in your charging system isn't working. You may find it is a cheap fix. A bad connection, a free fix, up to the costly stator replacement. I can't recommend buying new parts until you find out what parts you need.
You say you bought new brushes and a reg/rec. It could still be a bad connection somewhere. So don't throw away the old parts they may still be good.
Do the testing to find what's bad. Then buy parts.
The red/yellow wire from the fuse should have battery voltage. This wire feeds power to the headlight on/off part of the safety relay. When the bike is running power comes up from the alternator on the yellow wire. This yellow wire trips the relay and hooks the red/yellow wire to the blue/black wire.
If your charging system is not working the yellow wire won't have any power so the relay won't trip. So the voltage on the blue/black wire will be low.
Leo
The side stand relay has 4 wires, a red/white, a black/white wire, a black wire, a blue/yellow.
The black goes to ground. The black/white comes from the TCI box.
The blue/yellow wire also runs through a diode to the neutral light wire.
With the side stand down, if you put it in gear this trips the relay. When the relay trips the black/white from the TCI box gets grounded.
If the side stand is up when you put it in gear the relay won't trip.
I don't have a switch to test so I can't say if the switch is open or closed when the side stand is down. Just removing the side stand relay is the way to delete the engine stopping when put in gear.
On the charging system you need to read the charging guide. I don't know how to link to it but if you look up near the top of the page you will find the XS650 TECH button. This leads you to a list of topics. Scroll down to the Electrical, under this heading scroll to How To: Diagnose charging system problems (charging system guide)
This has the test procedures to find out what in your charging system isn't working. You may find it is a cheap fix. A bad connection, a free fix, up to the costly stator replacement. I can't recommend buying new parts until you find out what parts you need.
You say you bought new brushes and a reg/rec. It could still be a bad connection somewhere. So don't throw away the old parts they may still be good.
Do the testing to find what's bad. Then buy parts.
The red/yellow wire from the fuse should have battery voltage. This wire feeds power to the headlight on/off part of the safety relay. When the bike is running power comes up from the alternator on the yellow wire. This yellow wire trips the relay and hooks the red/yellow wire to the blue/black wire.
If your charging system is not working the yellow wire won't have any power so the relay won't trip. So the voltage on the blue/black wire will be low.
Leo
Thank you for helping me on my project. After looking through the tech center, manuals and trial and error I have a question that many of you are probably going to say, duh...
It looks to me like the Headlight issue and the sluggish running could all be contributed to my initial issue, the charging system. I am thinking I need to go back to the beginning and run down the issue and then see if it solves my other 2 issues. The only items I haven't replaced are the rotar and Stator. If you could let me know what your thoughts are. I have been trying the inexpensive tries first, but it looks like I need to see if the Stator and Rotor are good, then once the charging system is fixed see what is left.
It looks to me like the Headlight issue and the sluggish running could all be contributed to my initial issue, the charging system. I am thinking I need to go back to the beginning and run down the issue and then see if it solves my other 2 issues. The only items I haven't replaced are the rotar and Stator. If you could let me know what your thoughts are. I have been trying the inexpensive tries first, but it looks like I need to see if the Stator and Rotor are good, then once the charging system is fixed see what is left.
FB71
Expert Turd Polisher
^^^ correct. 11.89 at the battery with the engine running tells us that the charging system is not functioning at all. Fix that first, then rediagnose your other issues. Carefully check the rotor and stator prior to just replacing them. Your charging system issue could be rooted in a wiring concern.
Test the ohms on the rotor. Slipring to slipring with the brushes out. Note how the brushes go on as you take them off. Should ohm at 5....anything less than four and she's toast. There's a test for the stator that is mentioned in the Haynes manual and also in the forum. Most likely culprit is the rotor.
If it is the rotor, and I agree at this point it almost certainly is, try to get the one you have rewound rather than getting a new one. New ones for '80 up have been sort of a crap shoot whether they will trigger the ignition, for one reason or another. See if your local auto electric shop will touch it. If not, then there;s a place in Georgia, I think it is, which you'll find reference to here that you can send it to. Also look into getting the right puller for it, as generic pullers reportedly damage the core.
When you are talking about the Rotor being rewound are you talking the Stator? I thought the rotor was the device that turns inside the Stator. I will look into that. I am glad you reminder me. I had read previous posts about this being the case.
The rotor turns inside the stator. It's got the copper sliprings that the two brushes ride on and that is where you probe for your ohms....slipring to slipring. You need a special tool for proper rotor removal. Do a search for 'custom rewind' as some have used this service with good results.
The rotor is an electromagnet. The regulator controls the current flowing through the rotor. As the rotor spins this magnetic field create current in the stator.
The rotor has windings in it that can short out. You can get the windings replaced. This is what rewinding is.
The stator is very similar, It has windings in it too. They can be replaced too.
Up in the XS650 tech section you will find a list, scroll down to Electrical. Under Electrical you will find the charging system troubleshooting guide, Follow the steps.
Leo
The rotor has windings in it that can short out. You can get the windings replaced. This is what rewinding is.
The stator is very similar, It has windings in it too. They can be replaced too.
Up in the XS650 tech section you will find a list, scroll down to Electrical. Under Electrical you will find the charging system troubleshooting guide, Follow the steps.
Leo
