I am Carbon
shade tree mechanic
you know thats right. I'm sure once he gets it sorted it will start easy enough.
After I got this engine sorted it has been starting on first or second kick.
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First bike. New to me 1977 XS650. Have some questions
- Thread starter bhall1222
- Start date
you know thats right. I'm sure once he gets it sorted it will start easy enough.
After I got this engine sorted it has been starting on first or second kick.
CDNTX650
XS650 Guru
Yeah mine is a pretty easy. Like super half assed kick from cold it starts. Traffic is the only shitty thing...just making sure you find TDC before you go. But only stalled it once anyways. Knock on wood.
tonyc
XS650 Guru
I am with Carbon once I sorted mine out it also starts firs or second kick. I run a Boyer with a Sparx alternator. Three phase. Some times replace the battery with two capacitors and again it is easy to start.
Posted via Mobile
Posted via Mobile
How I start mine:
How not to start one:
How not to start one:
A centerstand is a wonderful thing, especially when it comes to starting. I know from experience that a bike, any bike, just plain starts easier when perfectly upright and vertical. Heeled way over on a sidestand with the fuel levels in the float bowls all askew makes for hard starting and easy flooding.
I am Carbon
shade tree mechanic
bhall1222
XS650 New Member
I AM CARBON, thank you very much for the welcome and advice! After talking with the previous owner I checked the spark plugs and sure enough they were fouled. Picked up 2 new ones today, put them in, kicked it a few times and boom... life. As of right now I still need it on the center block I have to be able to get enough leverage for the kick. I might need to look into figuring out how to put a center stand on here... unless the kick gets easier as I work through tuning the motor. Got to ride it around the neighborhood a few times with a big smile on my face. Obstacle number 1 is overcome. Next step will be to do the torquing as you suggested, and then get into timing. PO sent me a good thread from here with exactly what needs to be done (he is incredibly knowledgable and has been super helpful so far). I could hear it being a little jumpy at certain gears so I know it needs to be tuned. I've done this on my boat so I'm sure I can handle it on the bike.
Even once I get the kicking down, what would be involved to add an electric start to it? I don't mind getting dirty and figuring out something new, especially if it'll make my life easier. I assume I would need to switch over to having a battery rather than the sparx route? (which if someone would like to explain exactly how that thing works I would love to hear it)
Also, next up will be a front brake asap. I think that might help with the kick actually since as of now it wants to roll forward when I kick it....
I've got to give you all credit. I own a 2012 f150 as well that I do a lot of work on and the forum I use for it is not nearly as personal and helpful. You guys have been great thus far and I look forward to borrowing knowledge from all of you. I know this might not seem like the best bike to start out with, but I'm honestly very excited about it. I won't lie, I got worried pretty quickly since it wasn't starting yesterday and thought to myself "oh gosh, what have I got myself into", but after getting it up and running today my faith is restored and I'm back to being optimistic.
Thanks,
Brian
(I'll get some more good pics soon)
Even once I get the kicking down, what would be involved to add an electric start to it? I don't mind getting dirty and figuring out something new, especially if it'll make my life easier. I assume I would need to switch over to having a battery rather than the sparx route? (which if someone would like to explain exactly how that thing works I would love to hear it)
Also, next up will be a front brake asap. I think that might help with the kick actually since as of now it wants to roll forward when I kick it....
I've got to give you all credit. I own a 2012 f150 as well that I do a lot of work on and the forum I use for it is not nearly as personal and helpful. You guys have been great thus far and I look forward to borrowing knowledge from all of you. I know this might not seem like the best bike to start out with, but I'm honestly very excited about it. I won't lie, I got worried pretty quickly since it wasn't starting yesterday and thought to myself "oh gosh, what have I got myself into", but after getting it up and running today my faith is restored and I'm back to being optimistic.
Thanks,
Brian
(I'll get some more good pics soon)
Hi Brian and welcome,
at least the dreaded PO left the rear suspension mostly in place, as to the rest, if you like the way it looks and you are shortarsed enough to sit on that Bratstyled seat without your knees hitting your chin, OK.
BUT
fer chrissake install a front brake before you get converted into a smear of forensic evidence.
Stock brake parts are easy to find used and should bolt straight on.
Add fenders too, you don't live in the desert, right?
And mufflers, bikes with open exhausts don't usually idle or start easily.
And signals so those inattentive car drivers can see you better.
And some kinda soft bags to carry your stuff in.
Apart from that, nice bike, I wish you many miles of happy riding.
at least the dreaded PO left the rear suspension mostly in place, as to the rest, if you like the way it looks and you are shortarsed enough to sit on that Bratstyled seat without your knees hitting your chin, OK.
BUT
fer chrissake install a front brake before you get converted into a smear of forensic evidence.
Stock brake parts are easy to find used and should bolt straight on.
Add fenders too, you don't live in the desert, right?
And mufflers, bikes with open exhausts don't usually idle or start easily.
And signals so those inattentive car drivers can see you better.
And some kinda soft bags to carry your stuff in.
Apart from that, nice bike, I wish you many miles of happy riding.
What spark plugs are you using? The stock plug for these is the NGK BP7ES .....
These are available at most auto parts stores now for a much better price than getting them from a cycle shop. They can be bought in a 4 pack and I suggest you get that so you have spares while sorting the bike. The 4 pack will run you about $10. You'll also need to gap them. They usually come gapped for cars somewhere in the mid to high 30s. Bike ignitions, especially on old bikes like these, aren't as powerful so the gaps need to be smaller. Set them to .028". I fixed a new guy's 650 once that wouldn't start simply by properly gapping his new plugs. He just stuck them in without checking them and the gaps were too big for the stock ignition to fire. Your hard starting could be related to this.
I think you're giving the P.O. more credit than he's due by calling him "incredibly knowledgeable". Granted, he knows more about motorcycles than you do, but just look at the hack job he's performed on what was a perfectly good motorcycle, lol. The '77 model is one of the most sought after and desirable versions of this bike, a true classic, and that moron took a sawzall to it, lol. And he didn't even do that right, removing things you need (centerstand mounts) while leaving others you don't (original footpeg mounts and lower side cover mount tab).
Here's a short list of things you should investigate .....
- your fork lowers are backwards, mounted on the wrong sides and facing the wrong direction.
- your air filters appear to be the cheap K&N copies which don't work very well at all on these bikes.
- your axle looks to be adjusted all the way back. That means either the chain is all stretched out and shot or "Sawzall Sam" fitted a smaller rear sprocket but didn't shorten the chain for it.
I'm sure there's many other things that need sorting. That's about all I could pick out from the couple included pics.
These are available at most auto parts stores now for a much better price than getting them from a cycle shop. They can be bought in a 4 pack and I suggest you get that so you have spares while sorting the bike. The 4 pack will run you about $10. You'll also need to gap them. They usually come gapped for cars somewhere in the mid to high 30s. Bike ignitions, especially on old bikes like these, aren't as powerful so the gaps need to be smaller. Set them to .028". I fixed a new guy's 650 once that wouldn't start simply by properly gapping his new plugs. He just stuck them in without checking them and the gaps were too big for the stock ignition to fire. Your hard starting could be related to this.
I think you're giving the P.O. more credit than he's due by calling him "incredibly knowledgeable". Granted, he knows more about motorcycles than you do, but just look at the hack job he's performed on what was a perfectly good motorcycle, lol. The '77 model is one of the most sought after and desirable versions of this bike, a true classic, and that moron took a sawzall to it, lol. And he didn't even do that right, removing things you need (centerstand mounts) while leaving others you don't (original footpeg mounts and lower side cover mount tab).
Here's a short list of things you should investigate .....
- your fork lowers are backwards, mounted on the wrong sides and facing the wrong direction.
- your air filters appear to be the cheap K&N copies which don't work very well at all on these bikes.
- your axle looks to be adjusted all the way back. That means either the chain is all stretched out and shot or "Sawzall Sam" fitted a smaller rear sprocket but didn't shorten the chain for it.
I'm sure there's many other things that need sorting. That's about all I could pick out from the couple included pics.
In your first post you come across as a greenhorn wearing rose tinted glasses. Maybe the glasses are a still a bit tinted but your obviously not as green as you came across as.
Take some info from the po but i would forget about him and concentrate on getting all the help you need from here. There are heaps willing to help out, (as you can see), without judging, (maybe a bit of bias here and there
), and use the "Tech Menu" and "Google search" as well.
On-line manuals are posted in the "ID" sticky in the Garage, but a hard copy is essential or download and photo copy the pages pages as required.
Personally i would put a brace across from the tab, (holds the top of the shocky) to the shock tab on the other side. There is a hell of a lot of sideways and vertical forces in that area and that is being transferred on to those two welds holding the top shock tabs.
My other concern would be, "have sleeves have been used in the weld?" where the frame was cut and the new section of frame has been welded in, where the shock mount tabs are welded to and seat sits on. These welds are next in line to be taking all the stress from the rear end.
Take some info from the po but i would forget about him and concentrate on getting all the help you need from here. There are heaps willing to help out, (as you can see), without judging, (maybe a bit of bias here and there
), and use the "Tech Menu" and "Google search" as well.On-line manuals are posted in the "ID" sticky in the Garage, but a hard copy is essential or download and photo copy the pages pages as required.
Personally i would put a brace across from the tab, (holds the top of the shocky) to the shock tab on the other side. There is a hell of a lot of sideways and vertical forces in that area and that is being transferred on to those two welds holding the top shock tabs.
My other concern would be, "have sleeves have been used in the weld?" where the frame was cut and the new section of frame has been welded in, where the shock mount tabs are welded to and seat sits on. These welds are next in line to be taking all the stress from the rear end.
On the e-start there is a gear and cross shaft the hooks the starter on one side to the crank on the other side. The gear on the left end of the shaft can only be accessed by splitting the cases.
Check with the PO and see if he removed these parts.
Leo
Check with the PO and see if he removed these parts.
Leo
ridgerunner1965
XS650 Addict
in my experience the kick starter is more powerfull than the electric starter. that could just be my bike tho as well. some have mentinoed the center stand, yes it is helpfull.
if yu think you have flooded it, pull plugs and dry out holes with a small bernzomatic torch and start over. i also use a small plug sandblaster to renew the plugs after they have been wet. but you can just burn them off with your torch in a pinch. dont use the sandblast plug cleaner if you dont understand how to use it and get any residual sand cleaned out of the plug.
i have sold bikes to guys and showed them exactly how to start them as i had been doin for years and they just didnt get it. some would fool with the timeing or change carbs on bikes i had no trouble with for years.
make sure your choke is working, my current xs you have to positively push the choke lever ALL the way over to make it work.
all that being said there is a learning curve. my 6'3" 250lb son with thighs like a russian power lifter can not seem to get as much kicker speed as his fat old 6' dad can.
if yu think you have flooded it, pull plugs and dry out holes with a small bernzomatic torch and start over. i also use a small plug sandblaster to renew the plugs after they have been wet. but you can just burn them off with your torch in a pinch. dont use the sandblast plug cleaner if you dont understand how to use it and get any residual sand cleaned out of the plug.
i have sold bikes to guys and showed them exactly how to start them as i had been doin for years and they just didnt get it. some would fool with the timeing or change carbs on bikes i had no trouble with for years.
make sure your choke is working, my current xs you have to positively push the choke lever ALL the way over to make it work.
all that being said there is a learning curve. my 6'3" 250lb son with thighs like a russian power lifter can not seem to get as much kicker speed as his fat old 6' dad can.
The kick starter on these bikes is very easy to use. Yes, the centre stand makes it much easier.
Having said that, I never use the kick starter. I use a little black button , that amazingly runs an electric motor in the bottom of the engine. Wow, those motorcycle engineers are really clever. 23 years of starting Yamahas and the electric starter has always fired up my bikes, (15 years XS500C and 8 years XS650SE).
I wish good luck to those that have only a kickstarter, and hope you don't stall in busy intersections very often.
Having said that, I never use the kick starter
. I use a little black button , that amazingly runs an electric motor in the bottom of the engine. Wow, those motorcycle engineers are really clever. 23 years of starting Yamahas and the electric starter has always fired up my bikes, (15 years XS500C and 8 years XS650SE).I wish good luck to those that have only a kickstarter, and hope you don't stall in busy intersections very often.
CDNTX650
XS650 Guru
I have stalled a couple times. No biggie. Find TDC quick. Quick prod and it starts. Lots of dual sports don't have e start either. Both my klr250 didn't . It's not a make or break deal. Wanna ride some woods bikes on the road you man up deal with it.
