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First highway run; engine bogs at 60

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by tzimmerm, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Good eye, 2many, and a cheap fix. Wouldn't it be loverly iffen that was it? That and the leaky cam end seals.......
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs and robinc like this.
  2. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru

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    Yes, with the felt wiper pad missing, that screw sticks through the bracket way too much. Take it out. Boy, if that's the issue, it would be a simple fix, lol. Watching the points action in your earlier video, the moving points arm is very, very close to that screw. It may not contact it constantly but very well could occasionally.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  3. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    Damn! It rained all night and it’s wet everywhere here; otherwise I’d be out testing it out right now! I’ll take that post/screw out, clean out the points cover, and maybe try a run down to the next exit and see if there’s any improvement. Am I ok to just spray some QD electronics cleaner in there?
     
  4. JimD54

    JimD54 Mechanic, 1968-Present.

    Yeah... that will work fine. Be sure and open the points up by hand and clean em off with a rag. Oil on the points will burn them.... if it hasn't already
     
  5. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru

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    The usual routine for cleaning points faces is to cut about 1/4" wide strips out of a plain white index or business card, spray them with the cleaner, and drag them through the points like a feeler gauge. You'll need to relieve some of the pressure, hold the points open a little, or the wet card stock will just tear. You'll get the hang of it quick. Hold the points open slightly with one hand, drag the card strip through with the other. You want just a light drag on the card strip or it will rip. Look at the card strip after dragging it through and you'll see all the dirt/oil you've removed. Keep at it until the card strips come out clean.
     
  6. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    SHIT!!! I Just came out to my
    Bike and I have left the petcocks on for like 2-3 days! I have read about gas leaking into the cylinders- what should I do? - Update- there is no obvious leaks/puddles anywhere. I smelled around the air box; no fuel smell. I pulled both plugs and smelled in the holes; no fuel smell either. Should I change the oil just to be safe? I just changed it like two weeks ago. If the fuel had leaked into the cylinders would there be any obvious signs?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  7. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    DCA98051-F757-408B-9455-3595E4839508.jpeg Also, It just occured to me that maybe these plug caps arent correct for these plugs? Maybe that could be part of my problem? They don’t “click” in place or anything like auto plug wires I’m used to. The inside of the cap has what appears to be a ridged cylinder, and the plug doesnt have any way I can see to actually make good contact. I tried to take the best picture I could. I wouldn't have noticed except for the fact that I’m scrutinizing the whole ignition system
    Now.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  8. If the oil level hasn't risen or you cant smell any fuel in the oil it should be ok. Leaving petcocks on doesn't mean fuel will leak through the carbs, it will only do this if the float valve isn't seating properly, the float valve usually leaks if the seat is damaged or some dirt is jammed in there. Turning off the petcocks is recommended but as i said before it isn't a problem as an occasional thing...............we have all done this at one time or another. I have heard of people who hardly ever turn off their petcocks, but it's not recommended, only asking for trouble at some time.
     
  9. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    Well, I removed the screw from the points and took the bike for a test run last night. I wasnt able to get any electronics cleaner; all the parts places here close at 7:00 on sunday. So I don’t know how big of a difference cleaner points would have made, but there was no improvement. It’s so strange- it’s fine up to 50-55. I opened up the throttle on the highway and got up to 65, and rode it for a few seconds, then it cuts out. I opened the throttle full, but the bike just kept slowing down to 50, then resumed power. I pulled into a turn off to turn around, and the bike died. It started right up with the starter button and did fine up to 55, then down to the 45 mph zone, and then 35 all the way home. Sure seems like a fuel issue. While I’m waiting for the seals and gaskets for the cam ends to get here I think I’m just going to pull the carbs tonight and send them off to Rick.
     
  10. JimD54

    JimD54 Mechanic, 1968-Present.

    Without going back through all the comments.... have you checked fuel flow to the carbs? Partially plugged petcocks and/or blocked tank vent? Obstructed float needle valve?
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  11. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    Fuel flow to carbs was a potential issue I fixed when I added inline filters and clear fuel line. I have NOT rebuilt the petcocks, but only had trouble with the left one in reserve. I have visually checked the tank vent, but havent taken it off to do anything. I have a gallon of evapo-rust; I was thinking of just taking the cap off and letting it soak for a day or so to make sure there’s nothing blocking it up. Maybe tonight. It doesnt seem too likely that the petcocks or tank vent are to blame, because the problem is in a specific speed range. It seems if the fuel was having a hard time getting to the carbs due to vacuum, it would pose a problem at other times too. I could of course be wrong. And I haven't taken the carbs off yet, so nothing checked there.
     
  12. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru

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    Yes, if your tank vent was plugged, the bike would up and stall out after a while, after a vacuum formed in the tank and the fuel flow was stopped. This could or would happen at any speed. The last time this happened to me was when I strapped on a new tank bag too tightly. The rubber pad on the bottom of it completely sealed around the gas cap and stopped any air from getting to it.

    You have classic bad diaphragm symptoms. Small holes in the diaphragms only allow a partial vacuum to be formed which only allows partial slide lift. The bike will only go so fast, especially in the higher gears.
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  13. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    I know it may seem like I’m not doing much, but the last two weeks has been really busy for me, and bear in mind I’m barely a shadetree mechanic. I work 40-52 hrs a week, donate plasma twice a week for an hour and a half to make ends meet, and then I only have my daughter 3 days a week, and my girlfriend wanting to spend time with me the other days. I don’t like neglecting them when I already don’t get enough time with either, and they’re both already tired of me “playing with the bike”. I have limited tools and no garage, so a job like taking the carbs off or replacing the seals is basically only something I can do late at night outside after I’ve put my daughter to bed, or on a saturday, the only day of the week I don’t work or have my kid. That’s why I’m spending so much time consulting you guys here during the week; so hopefully I can tackle the right job on my one chance to do a job. UPDATE— Damnit, I just realized I have a wedding to go to with the girlfriend this Saturday. I just can’t catch a break!
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  14. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs Kablatta, kablatta...

    I dub thee "onion".

    Keep peeling off layers, and more stuff shows up...
     
    grizld1, JimD54 and robinc like this.
  15. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    A1754197-7B78-484E-BBEA-0A7A2ECBF16F.jpeg EB9CA027-8D7B-4791-BAD3-48C18D0DBF74.jpeg 1DDEA623-F433-437E-9B5E-06C1340E9F3A.jpeg AAE6B5FA-32CD-4339-A907-4B281E0F5CED.jpeg D8207D27-CAE0-4441-AF55-B725525F470E.jpeg Ok, just took the carbs off. Isn’t this a pass on the dropdown test? Passing doesnt clear the diaphragms as the culprit, does it? Also, took off the carb boots, and the gaskets and boots look allright; no obvious cracks or breaks in the seal.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  16. JimD54

    JimD54 Mechanic, 1968-Present.

    I'm not a carb guru, but that looks pretty good to me.
     
  17. Diaphragms pass the test.
    Since the boots are off, pop the metal collars off and check for cracks in the rubber. If good, clean them up and the mounting surfaces too. Might put some non hardening gasket seal on both sides of the gasket and put them back on the engine along with the carbs. Get the clamp good and tight over that metal collar.. Road test and see what ya got. Still have a problem look elsewhere.
    Other opinions may vary............
     
    TwoManyXS1Bs likes this.
  18. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    Is it still possible that something else in the carbs is causing my problem? Clogged jet or something? I took off the butterfly brace between the carbs to remove them, and the screws were way easy to undo. Obviously that black fuel line was reinstalled by someone recently, and the PO told me it sat for ten years before he bought it 3 years ago, so I’m assuming someone did a little something to them. Maybe they messed something up inside? Just trying to decide if it’s still worth getting them rebuilt since the diaphragms arent as trashed as I assumed. If the carbs DO need work, I am going to have Rick do it.
     
  19. tzimmerm

    tzimmerm XS650 Addict

    Ok, the more I read about knocking/backfiring, power loss etc I am wondering if all these issue could be stemming from my bike not being timed right? Would I be able to start it up and ride around as frequently and relatively trouble free as I have been if the timing/valves were off enough to cause issues at higher speeds? From what I have read this morning, it sounds like when I’m replacing the cam seals I need to grease the camshaft, and when I do that I’m obviously going to have to check the timing. I’m going to have to invest in about 150.00 worth of tools just to do everything suggested/necessary; timing light, low values torque wrench for the head retorque, and possibly a dwell meter if I’m sticking with the points, which is just making me want a pamco even more. This is becoming a huge money pit. I bought this bike thinking I would be riding it. I don’t have enough free time or money to be doing all this work.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  20. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru

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    That's why old bikes aren't for everyone. Sometimes it's cheaper in the long run to buy a newer more expensive bike that you can just ride and not have to fix all the time. These 650s are so old, pretty much any and every one you buy needs some work, even the ones that look good to start with (just ask Mailman about that, lol).
     
    robinc likes this.

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