First XS650 Build, What to Look For

[SlowMaintenance]

Got it, I'll take another look at my front cam chain guide to see if it looks like it needs replacing. Will post a pic tonight once I get home.

As for the coil, it seems like those andrews ones are going for about 55 new. I suppose I could go used too, though I'd hate to receive a broken one mistakenly. Pamco unit itself goes for $100, 55 for a coil, then spark plugs and wires as I'd rather not reuse the garbage wires the bike came with. This is good info to have for pricing it all out.

Any reason why to use the e advancer instead? The idea of removing that mechanical advance rod sounds like installation and engine reassembly would be slightly easier but I'd rather hear from someone who has tried it with success first.

And still the search for a 2-1 intake and vm36 carb continues. I see a ton of the carbs on ebay for $100, I wonder if those are legit or china clones.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikuni-VM36...ash=item4ae709b829:g:3QsAAOSwyQtV50Ys&vxp=mtr

 

[5twins]

The advance rod stays even with the E-advance. It doesn't rotate and function like it used to with the old advance unit, it just serves as a mount for some of the Pamco components. In fact, you need an advance rod to mount a Pamco. That's why they have those kits for the later bikes that come with an advance rod. '80 and newer factory electronic ignition bikes didn't come with an advance rod.

I still have and use the old advance unit. The E-advance is supposed to be very nice, smoother running I guess. I will probably upgrade someday.

The plug wires and plug caps will probably run you about $20, maybe a bit less. The NGK caps are $3 or $4 each and for plug wire, you'll want solid wire core auto wire, not the resistor kind. I use VW Beetle silicone wires.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

I see. Looks like the pamco ignition plate, e advancer and rotor combo is available on pete's site for 190. I'll purchase that unit and get the coil and wires separately as you suggested. Might as well remove the advancer now, I know I'm never going to want to reopen later lol.

 

[5twins]

Take care removing that advance and you can probably sell it to recoup some of the Pamco cost. Mike's has repro advance units but there have been reports on them "grenading" after a short time. I'd take an old original in good shape any day over one of them.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

It's already bagged up and removed quite carefully. If anybody needs one, I know a guy who has one for sale lol

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Did some spring cleaning in the shop tonight and got everything tidy and ready for the return of the engine. The shop did me the favor of bonding the two cases together with their yamabond supply, so I'll be picking it up as one unit. Everything beyond that is on me to reassemble and I've got to be honest...I'm a little nervous. Quick disclaimer: I ordered the full gasket and oil seal set recommended earlier in this thread and provided those materials to the shop. All the seals are being replaced with fresh ones.

Anyways, here's how the shop aka basement is sitting now

All of the pieces I had removed and bagged are sorted into their approximate order of assembly, but mainly lumped into three very amateurly labeled categories.

Gears and Clutch Stuff
Ignition Units and Advance Rod Stuff
Engine bolts and motor mounts

The remaining bigger pieces are in a larger box which contains things that don't pertain to the engine. Footpegs frame pieces and the like.

Upon sorting though, I found three things that I don't remember seeing during disassembly. They are pictured below, can anyone identify them?

Is this related to the starter cover in some way?

These I have no clue at all

This one also puzzles me

Next are the things that scare me with the reassembly. Things I remember taking out and thinking..."this is gonna be confusing as hell when I have to put it back" lol.

Clutch adjustment star arm thing

This is the double rod unit that goes through the engine and pokes out through the clutch hub if I remember correctly. I also remember finding a ball bearing on the floor after removing it and was alarmed as I wasn't certain how many were needed. Earlier in the thread a few of you had chimed in mentioning that the number can vary depending on how much spacing is needed. I don't like the sound of that, so if anyone has a different thought, I think there are two ball bearings in this bag. Hoping that's the correct number

Clutch start arm is written on this bag, I think these go on the left side of the engine and hold the above pictured rods in. I will re read my thread and double check.

I believe this bag says "Gears behind clutch basket" of which I recall there being many. Some of which won't be needed anymore as I won't be reinstalling the starter. Hopefully the majority of this bag can go, but again I'll need to re read to determine that. If this post feels like it's rambling, it's because it is. This is my build thread and my guide lol, I'll look back on this one day and appreciate all the fear I had going into this project.

Lastly, I'd like to get rid of the tachometer altogether. Is there anything I need to know before I go at this thing and unscrew whatever is holding it together?

Thanks again for all the help along the way guys, expect this thread to be getting a lot busier now that the engine is coming back!

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Okay, Nick, let's see here.

Pic1- Are you in a cave? That's cool.
Pic2- Starter gear stuff, goes under the sprocket area.
Pic3- Wristpins for the pistons.
Pic4- Camshaft bearing, takes 4.
Pic5- Shift shaft.
Pic6- A 2-piece clutch pushrod, uses (3) 5/16" ball bearings.
Pic7- That washer with the large slot tells me those are used with the crank's primary drive gear.
Pic8- Yes, you can remove that shaft, and the secret washer at its bottom.

That was fun. More, more...

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Here ya go. Memorize this thing:

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Okay, Nick, let's see here.

Pic1- Are you in a cave? That's cool.
Pic2- Starter gear stuff, goes under the sprocket area.
Pic3- Wristpins for the pistons.
Pic4- Camshaft bearing, takes 4.
Pic5- Shift shaft.
Pic6- A 2-piece clutch pushrod, uses (3) 5/16" ball bearings.
Pic7- That washer with the large slot tells me those are used with the crank's primary drive gear.
Pic8- Yes, you can remove that shaft, and the secret washer at its bottom.

That was fun. More, more...

1. Haha yea the basement at this apartment I rent has some very unusual walls. Very primitive down here.

2. Perfect, won't be needing that then.

3. Won't need these either

4. That's right, I remember this now. This one kept falling off constantly. (PS: When I first read your response I thought you said "crankshaft bearing" and I was losing my shit thinking about how the shop had already sealed the cases and how could they not notice etc lol)

5. Shift shaft I recall being a pretty easy removal. Just slides back in and held on with a c clip I believe.

6. Damn, I'll double check those to see if it was really only 2 ball bearings in there. Hopefully I have all three or I'll need to order another.

7. That sounds unfamiliar, I'm fairly certain this came out prior to getting into the bottom end as I don't believe I removed anything besides on gear that was loose from having removed the starter crossover.

8. Good to know, sounds like this bag isn't mainly not needed but I will hold onto it anyways until I'm certain

On another note, here's the front cam chain guide that I said was in pretty decent shape. I honestly don't think it needs to be replaced it looks brand new

Going to stop by the shop tomorrow as I'm not certain whether they put the cylinders back on but I don't think they could have without this piece.

 

[cruzin]

I bought a honda 350 twin once and the cam chain tensioner had been bad so long that the case was full of aluminium powder.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Item 6 - The 3rd ball bearing is found in the actuator worm, retained by subtle punch marks in the hole edge. Sometimes those retainers are worn enuff to let the ball slip out.

Coupla things to check on the front guide, especially if it's a non-Yam part, is separation of the plastic and loose/shallow/incomplete threading of its 6mm mount holes. More info in here:

http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/1640/

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Item 6 - The 3rd ball bearing is found in the actuator worm, retained by subtle punch marks in the hole edge. Sometimes those retainers are worn enuff to let the ball slip out.

Coupla things to check on the front guide, especially if it's a non-Yam part, is separation of the plastic and loose/shallow/incomplete threading of its 6mm mount holes. More info in here:

http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/1640/

It's clear from these photos that someone has placed an aftermarket front guide in my bike. While it appears to be in good condition and usable, it would seem that the main difference between this and the stock unit are the fact that the threads are shallower and the convex curve greater. It wouldn't need to be pushed against the chain quite as tightly as an original, which is to say that one could not swap the original for the MikesXS version and mark the original nut positions as a guide for where to place them again upon install.

I don't think this necessarily means that this unit wouldn't work, unless someone here has reason to believe that using this piece would be a problem. Given the condition of the engine when I bought it, I'm not certain that this guide ever saw a running engine.

As for that final ball bearing, it could be somewhere inside one of the other pieces. I'll look today as I'm working from home. Got a guy coming to buy my old ironhead. More work space! Woohoo

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Nick, the arched guide is correct for the 72-83 engines, including yours. My album was simply comparing those newer 'arched' guides to my original 70-71 flat guide, which is no longer available.

I've never fooled with the XS650 starter stuff, so I hope that others can jump in here to comment on your suspected starter parts...

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Engine is back!

Nice new pistons

It looks dirty/rough in this photo but that's actually oil in the cylinders or some sort of clear lubrication. They look pristine in person

Here's the cam chain tied back. The shop said that it looked to be in excellent running condition so we left it as is. I believe I'll still need to split it for the final installation though right?

Tensioner installed. Bolts torqued to 7ft/lbs

Brand new seals

More seals

Start gear seal...do I remove this and install the cap in it's place? I thought that's what I saw people doing in other build threads. The starter will be scrapped anyways.

These came in the seal/gasket package. I have no idea what they are. Exhaust gaskets maybe? There are two of them.

Also all of these orings came with the set too. Lord help me as I try to determine where they all go.

The top section of the engine is still at the shop. They're going to clean and inspect the valves to determine if new ones are needed. The old ones were pretty grimey but who knows, crossing my fingers that they're usable.

Not sure exactly where to start with the reassembly. Thinking maybe the clutch basket would be a good jumping off point. I've got my manual and it seems fairly straightforward. I don't think I'll need to replace any of the gears to the lower left of the basket since they're for the starter motor.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Thanks 5 twins. Always showing up with the info I need!

To confirm, there are two ball bearings which go in that clutch pushrod assembly correct?

I've drawn this diagram to illustrate my thinking, if this isn't the way it goes together please let me know so I don't assemble it wrong later on.

Splitting the cases tonight after work so expect more pictures around 10pm or thereabouts. That or a post saying "god damnit I can't get these cases apart" lmao.

I drew this during disassembly to try to understand where that ball bearing joint is. If there are three ball bearings used, can someone tell me where the third one goes?

Thanks!

 

[gggGary]

do NOT need to split cam chain to install the cam. Install head, cam, cover cam in head, chain on sprocket, then install bearings onto ends of cam. Now the rear cam chain tensioner.

3rd pushrod bearing is (supposed to be) inside the worm gear.

Yes those are the exhaust gaskets.

 

[lakeview]

You are at pretty much the same stage I am at. Did the shop give you any reason that they thought the cam chain was good for another period of service? Mine looks the same as far as bending laterally.

 

[5twins]

I see the valve guide seals in your bag of o-rings. You'll want to get them to the shop so they can replace them on your head.

Installing the front guide the way you did doesn't always work so well. There's some slop in the mounting holes so it can go in cocked or crooked if you can't check the bottom position. Usually, you mount it while the cylinders are still off so you can measure side to side and center it in the cam chain tunnel. If your cylinder is just sitting there on the base gasket (no sealer), you can probably turn the motor over to the bottom of it's stroke then raise the cylinders with the pistons still in them a couple inches. Put some wood blocks on both sides to hold the cylinders up and then you could check if the bottom of the guide is centered.

 

[5twins]

The two largest o-rings left in your bag are for the points and advance housings. I see you still have the original orange ones in place on them. You may want to re-use them if they're in good shape. They're better than the black replacements in the kit. Four of the smaller o-rings will be for the valve guides, another four for the little chrome cover screws for the rocker shafts, and yet another four for the sleeves that fit through the outer stud holes on the top cover. You need not use these if you didn't remove those parts. The thicker black one near the bottom right in your pic is for the acorn cover nut on the cam chain adjuster. The two red bakelite washers are for your drain plugs. I really like those, they last darn near forever.

 

[SlowMaintenance]

Thanks 5twins, always there with the info I need!

As for that cam chain front guide, the cylinders are not yet sealed onto the cases. There is just a gasket between them. I will lift up and check the alignment before torquing them down. Is it recommended to use yamabond between every layer of the engine during reassembly? Or are the gaskets ok for the cylinders and above?

Thanks!