Health Thread

[Mailman]

Canadian healthcare....hmmmmm. Well, OK then, here we go.

When I went to see my family doc about my knee, it took 2 days to get the appointment - my bill:= $0
She referred me to an orthopaedic surgeon and that appointment was about 3 weeks later - my bill = $0
He sent me for an MRI and X-rays which were done that day along with a brief return apt. - my bill = $0
He & I decided that I needed a total knee replacement and the original surgery date was 11 month off
During that waiting period I had 4 cortisone shots for knee pain on dates of my choice - my bill = $0
My surgery was moved up by 2 months due to cancellations - operation was on Jan. 17/2019
I was admitted at 6:15 AM, had surgery at 8:30 AM and was discharged 2-1/2 days later - my bill = $0
I was prescribed oxy-codene pills for pain which I took for about 2-1/2 weeks - my bill = $0
A physiotherapist came to my home the day after discharge (on a Sunday) to make sure I was ok - my bill = $0
I began physio sessions 3 times/week for one hour each (still going 9 weeks later) - my bill = $0
I had a follow-up appointment with the surgeon two weeks post-op - my bill = $0
Today (Sun. Mar. 24) I will ride my motorcycle to a bike club breakfast - my bill = likely ~ $10
I will have another (final I suspect) appointment with the surgeon next week - my bill = $0

Incidentally, I often see a lady at physio who had her knee replacement on the same day as me - she told me on Monday that she is 82 years old.

Now, why did it take 9 months for me to get the surgery? Well, there was a wait list BUT I chose my surgeon (one of the best in the country - trained at Johns Hopkins in the US BTW) AND I wanted it in Jan. so that it wouldn’t mess up Christmas or riding season PLUS, I could walk, ride and live OK, AND I got those cortisone shots whenever I needed them.

Now, my knee treatment was not an emergency - but here is how it works when it IS an emergency:
- my Dad (a life-long smoker age 69) was diagnosed with lung cancer on a Monday in 1999 - his bill = $0
- he had surgery that Wednesday (48 hours later) - his bill = $0
I won’t go into all the gory details, but he had two more operations, radiation, chemo etc. over the next 3 years before finally passing away at age 72 and his bill for all that treatment and drugs etc etc. = $0

I live on the US-Canãda border and so I hear all the BS and lies pumped by the US medical industry and fruitcake media about our system (can’t choose your doctor = a lie, you’ll die on the wait list = a lie, no surgery after age 70 = a lie, limits on life-long medical care costs = a lie, old people cut adrift on ice floes in the arctic = Gimme a f@ckin’ break!).

You can call it “socialized” medicine if you like, but knowledgeable Canadians call it a rational, logical, humane system which manages the best of modern care in way that benefits the widest segment of the population. I have never seen a medical bill from the Canadian system - ever. It is handled seemlessly in our tax system which is progressive (i.e. the rich pay more) as it is in virtually every other western country. If some know-nothing, bonehead, Canadian trucker doesn’t get that - oh well - and BTW, if he had been injured in Canada, it WOULD clearly have been an emergency and he would have been treated immediately - his f@cking bill = $0.

Is iour system perfect - he!, no!
Would I trade our system for the US system - nope.

Yes, I paid for my health care and for my late father’s care too - but I shared those costs with 34 million other Canadians and so the bills were pretty manageable, in my view. One final data point, if you want to see how the performance of our two systems compare, just Google two statistics:
- infant mortality;
- male and female life expectancy.

Our weather may suck but, sorry friends, we have better beer, better hockey players and waaayyy better health care and the total amount of PUBLIC funds, per capita, spent by Canadian taxpayers on health is less than that spent by American taxpayers. Check it out - your government spends more of YOUR money on health care for a system that doesn’t even cover everyone - than ours does to cover everyone. The only thing the Canadian health care system lacks that the US system does have is a huge health insurance industry that:
- NEVER sees a patient
- NEVER stitches a wound
- NEVER does an operation
- NEVER serves a hospital meal
- NEVER comforts a grieving parent
- costs a friggin’ fortune to feed, clothe and provide golf club memberships for.

I have lived and worked In both Canada and the US (loved it there BTW), and my employer in LA provided a great health insurance plan for my family and I. From what I can see as a semi-outsider looking in, for Americans who can afford good insurance and/or who work for an employer who provides it - your system is awesome, but for other people.....

I don’t want an argument, but someone did ask.

PS: all dollar amounts above in CDN currency so deduct 30% for the equivalent amounts in USD.

THATS what I’m talking about! Thank you Pete!

 

[gggGary]

Well in that case, seeing in that you’re interested, I will give you a more accurate and less flip description of what they’re doing and what I know about it. ( I know just about enough to be dangerous )

Initial internal eye pressure tests have indicated an elevated pressure in my left eye, the one with the blind spot.
I was given a sample bottle of eye drops to see if it would reduce the pressure and went back yesterday to be re tested. The drops worked and brought my pressure back to the normal range.
There does not seem to be a single definitive test to determine if you have Glaucoma, it’s not eye pressure alone.
People naturally have different pressures and respond differently. Not all people with high pressure will have Glaucoma and conversely people with lower pressure sometimes DO get Glaucoma. It’s rather random.
A high resolution retina scan showed a rather normal, undamaged looking optic nerve, from what he could see.
He said it still could very well be Glaucoma but he wants to rule out other possibilities with the MRI.
My biggest fear was a tumor in the pituitary gland, it’s in a small space in your skull pretty much straight back from the bridge of your nose. The optic nerve shares that small space and a tumor would start to push on the nerve and cause vision loss. The surgery to remove a tumor there is pretty invasive and unpleasant.
When I brought up the possibility of a pituitary tumor, he said he doubted that because he said that would usually present itself as a loss of vision in BOTH eyes.
So....what’s the MRI all about? The optic nerve pathway from the back of your eyeballs to its final destination in your brain is a rather long one. From what I’ve been able to find out online there are numerous opportunities for something to impede the function of the nerve, most involving some sort of obstruction of blood flow to the nerve.
My doctor gave me the option of getting the MRI or watchful waiting. He said he didn’t really suspect a tumor, but let’s have the peace of mind of ruling it out. The other thing that puzzled my doctor was the fact that my vision loss had a rather sudden onset. Glaucoma is a very slow moving condition, he said it doesn’t typically show up suddenly.
So that’s where I’m at right now. Taking daily eye drops and waiting for the MRI. I should know more in a week or so. I’ll keep you posted.

Thanks for the details even if you're scaring me, just getting started on a similar quest for answers.

 

[kshansen]

Canadian healthcare....hmmmmm. Well, OK then, here we go.

And when you add in Timmies! Have to wonder why I still live here!

One other point that I don't think anyone seems to take into account is that hospitals here are required to provide at least basic life saving measure whether or not a person has means to pay. So now it does not take a genius to figure out who does pay for that service in the end!

Another scam I think is the way a hospital or doctor will bill for a procedure one price say as my hand surgery back in Nov.
provider (surgical center) billed my insurance $4,182.00, my insurance approved $1,090.10 and my share was $0.00. Now where does that other $3,091.90 show up?
Does someone get to "claim" that as a loss on some tax form?

 

[gggGary]

And when you add in Timmies! Have to wonder why I still live here!

One other point that I don't think anyone seems to take into account is that hospitals here are required to provide at least basic life saving measure whether or not a person has means to pay. So now it does not take a genius to figure out who does pay for that service in the end!

Another scam I think is the way a hospital or doctor will bill for a procedure one price say as my hand surgery back in Nov.
provider (surgical center) billed my insurance $4,182.00, my insurance approved $1,090.10 and my share was $0.00. Now where does that other $3,091.90 show up?
Does someone get to "claim" that as a loss on some tax form?

Saw paper work on one of mom's ER visits 900 settled in full by medicare for $90 medical care isn't that out of line in this country it's the goverenment dumping the true costs of medicare/ medicaid on insurance and the poor uninsured bastards frequently putting them in bankruptcy. I could go into long rant about my deceased daughter.......

 

[MaxPete]

So now it does not take a genius to figure out who does pay for that service in the end!

....at the risk of starting an argument...

The above point about US hospital billing is what really startles me. The system appears to play a game of invoice-chicken with people (NOTE: THEM is a beautiful hospital in Anytown USA, YOU is an average American):

THEM: we used a bandaid on your cut finger - please pay the attached bill for $11,435

YOU: up yours, I’m not paying

THEM: hmmm...ok, here is a bill for $678

YOU: drop dead - you’re not getting a penny

THEM: well, ok then - I’m going to send Uncle Sam a bill for $1487

YOU: whatever.

UNCLE SAM: ok Hospital, here’s your $87.63

THEM: OK - thanks very much.

NOTE: the part of UNCLE SAM was played by the 360 million US taxpayers - and THAT is why American taxpayers actually put more public money into the health care system than Canadian taxpayers - or those of any other western country. The system appears to be designed to make insurance companies rich, taxpayers poor and everyone buried in paperwork - with health care being a somewhat secondary outcome.

My apologies if I have some or even much of this wrong, but that is how it looks like to me.

 

[Jim]

I'm retired military, so my healthcare comes from Tricare. Last yr. our "current" administration raised the copay from 10 to 30 bucks. Here's how that affects my ongoing feet problems. I called Tricare with the name of a Dr. I wanted to see. They say "you have to get a referral from your family Dr." So, I go to see him and get the referral. That's 30 bucks please. I go to see the ft. Dr. and it turns out he's a quack. I get up and walk out on him in the middle of the visit... I still gotta pay the $30 copay. I call Tricare with a new Dr. Yeah....um, your family Dr. has to submit that... another $30 please.
Go to new Dr. and he puts me on a steroid treatment.. for $30 of course. That doesn't work so off I go with $30 in hand to see him again. This time I'm given 6 weeks of physical therapy 3 times a week..... at 30 bucks a pop. $90 a week.... for 6 weeks. Didn't help. Back to ft Dr. with another $30 in hand. Next up, shots. Oops, Tricare needs to approve that. I leave $30 poorer... with no shots. Tricare approves 5 shots... times $30 every time I go in for one. I'm down to looking for alternative solutions now before I resort to the iffy surgery (50-70% success rate).
I'm retired and living on a military retirement and Social Security. Anybody who's been wondering why progress is slow on my SG resto.... there's two reasons. Limited mobility and an even more limited cash flow.

Seriously.... Is this the best we can do?

 

[MaxPete]

Geeezzzz Jim by my calculations that’s about $900 you’ve laid out in co-pays - so far.

 

[Jim]

Geeezzzz Jim by my calculations that’s about $900 you’ve laid out in co-pays - so far.

Yeah Pete. That was just off the top of my head... I'm sure there was other visits in there.....
Not told in that article I linked to above is that at the same time the Trump administration raised our copay, they also started charging us for prescription drugs.
What was once free... we now gotta pay for.

But hey..... "Nobody takes better care of our veterans than me folks.... that I can tell you."

Yeah...Right.

 

[Downeaster]

I'm retired military, so my healthcare comes from Tricare.
<snippage>

I'm retired and living on a military retirement and Social Security. Anybody who's been wondering why progress is slow on my SG resto.... there's two reasons. Limited mobility and an even more limited cash flow.

Jim are you on Medicare also? I'm retired Navy, Tricare for Life + Medicare and I haven't paid a copay in recent memory. Of course, I'm lucky enough to be disgustingly healthy, so an annual "wellness check" is pretty much the extent of my doctor visits (knock on wood...)

Wish I could say the same about the dentist. I hope he's enjoying his new Mercedes...

 

[Jim]

Jim are you on Medicare also?

No, I go on Medicare this fall. And that's probably the reason you don't have the copay. The way I understand it (if any of this mess is understandable) is that Medicare becomes your primary coverage and Tricare becomes the secondary coverage.

 

[Downeaster]

No, I go on Medicare this fall. And that's probably the reason you don't have the copay. The way I understand it (if any of this mess is understandable) is that Medicare becomes your primary coverage and Tricare becomes the secondary coverage.

Correct. I still have a co-pay for prescriptions, but Dr. visits for me and Mrs. Downeaster are taken care of. Plus, it's all automatic, I didn't have to do squat when I turned 65.

 

[650Skull]

I'm retired military, so my healthcare comes from Tricare. Last yr. our "current" administration raised the copay from 10 to 30 bucks. Here's how that affects my ongoing feet problems. I called Tricare with the name of a Dr. I wanted to see. They say "you have to get a referral from your family Dr." So, I go to see him and get the referral. That's 30 bucks please. I go to see the ft. Dr. and it turns out he's a quack. I get up and walk out on him in the middle of the visit... I still gotta pay the $30 copay. I call Tricare with a new Dr. Yeah....um, your family Dr. has to submit that... another $30 please.
Go to new Dr. and he puts me on a steroid treatment.. for $30 of course. That doesn't work so off I go with $30 in hand to see him again. This time I'm given 6 weeks of physical therapy 3 times a week..... at 30 bucks a pop. $90 a week.... for 6 weeks. Didn't help. Back to ft Dr. with another $30 in hand. Next up, shots. Oops, Tricare needs to approve that. I leave $30 poorer... with no shots. Tricare approves 5 shots... times $30 every time I go in for one. I'm down to looking for alternative solutions now before I resort to the iffy surgery (50-70% success rate).
I'm retired and living on a military retirement and Social Security. Anybody who's been wondering why progress is slow on my SG resto.... there's two reasons. Limited mobility and an even more limited cash flow.

Seriously.... Is this the best we can do?

Yes that ugly word Socialism............Scares the big end of town and those who think social solutions and/or considderations will stifle private enterprise..........

recently i had clots on the lungs.........

We have a Bulk billing system in Australia where doctors can charge the gov't for consultations. Usually reserved for those who are on the lower social-economic scale, or older, or less affluent............it is the doctors discretion and some will not use it and others embrace it.

Went to my GP........No cost.................He bulk bills me for all consultations.

had a blood test........No cost.

Went to the hospital for Scans, cat scans of my lungs.....medication, Anti coagulant and clot dissolving injection,.............stayed overnight with medication and more medication......No cost.

2 weeks later another visit to the hospital for an ultrasound scan of my legs as a diagnostic to see if i suffered from DVT.......no cost.

Had 2 visits to a Physician over a 3 month period. ............I was warned if i did not turn up for my appointment without a 24 hour notice i would be charged $375 per visit.................No cost.

An appointment with the hospital for a Eco-cardiogram................. No cost......

I have had ear problems in my past and the Specialist .............first consultation cos t me $160........

93 i had an operation that involved basically removing the ear and they rebuilt the eardrum and hearing bones.......had a choice of waiting and doing it through the public system, (no cost and could take any amount of time), or paying for it myself.........I payed for it and was quoted $1500.. .when i went to pay the bill it was closer to $3000 but the amount over and above the $1500 was covered by ourt medicare system..............wearing a hearing aid and living in the tropics with my job as a carpenter, (lots of sweating), over the years i had a lot of ear infections.........I would regularly every 3 months see the specialist....No cost, has always bulk billed.............had to get a referral every year..........

Cost varied over time from $20 - $40 per year for a referral with medicare rebate.

The doctor visits, when not bulk billed, are about $70, (could vary from place to place), and we get a rebate of about $40 from medicare.

The big end of town and one of the major political parties have tried over the years to get rid of medicare..........excuses are.......to expensive...........if privatized the gov't would get a one off bunch of money and this will solve all of the countries debit problems and save so much money the books could be balanced........Why should our taxes go to supporting those who wont help themselves.

Social benefits, (encompasses all gov't public social services), has been in the system for so long if the governing party tries to abolish it then they will be voted out........There has been erosion's over the years, but there is still a good system in place

 

[kshansen]

A little off the Health topic. Those who are so scared when they hear the word "Socialism" don't seem to understand that that is what plows the roads, builds the roads, pays for fire departments, police departments and on and on!

They only get upset if they think some poor sucker might benefit who lost their job because some rich SOB moved the factory to a country that did not care what poison they dumped in the yard behind the factory and they could hire some ten year old's to do the jobs.

 

[Goldenboy]

Well, a broken ankle ain't exactly "elective"... is it? I suspect that, rather than waiting 6 months, he would have been at the head of the line.

You are right, Jim. But he also mentioned that socialized medicine was not an incentive for people to train as doctors, as it was less lucrative, so there is a shortage of doctors.

 

[Goldenboy]

Yes that ugly word Socialism............Scares the big end of town and those who think social solutions and/or considderations will stifle private enterprise..........

recently i had clots on the lungs.........

We have a Bulk billing system in Australia where doctors can charge the gov't for consultations. Usually reserved for those who are on the lower social-economic scale, or older, or less affluent............it is the doctors discretion and some will not use it and others embrace it.

Went to my GP........No cost.................He bulk bills me for all consultations.

had a blood test........No cost.

Went to the hospital for Scans, cat scans of my lungs.....medication, Anti coagulant and clot dissolving injection,.............stayed overnight with medication and more medication......No cost.

2 weeks later another visit to the hospital for an ultrasound scan of my legs as a diagnostic to see if i suffered from DVT.......no cost.

Had 2 visits to a Physician over a 3 month period. ............I was warned if i did not turn up for my appointment without a 24 hour notice i would be charged $375 per visit.................No cost.

An appointment with the hospital for a Eco-cardiogram................. No cost......

I have had ear problems in my past and the Specialist .............first consultation cos t me $160........

93 i had an operation that involved basically removing the ear and they rebuilt the eardrum and hearing bones.......had a choice of waiting and doing it through the public system, (no cost and could take any amount of time), or paying for it myself.........I payed for it and was quoted $1500.. .when i went to pay the bill it was closer to $3000 but the amount over and above the $1500 was covered by ourt medicare system..............wearing a hearing aid and living in the tropics with my job as a carpenter, (lots of sweating), over the years i had a lot of ear infections.........I would regularly every 3 months see the specialist....No cost, has always bulk billed.............had to get a referral every year..........

Cost varied over time from $20 - $40 per year for a referral with medicare rebate.

The doctor visits, when not bulk billed, are about $70, (could vary from place to place), and we get a rebate of about $40 from medicare.

The big end of town and one of the major political parties have tried over the years to get rid of medicare..........excuses are.......to expensive...........if privatized the gov't would get a one off bunch of money and this will solve all of the countries debit problems and save so much money the books could be balanced........Why should our taxes go to supporting those who wont help themselves.

Social benefits, (encompasses all gov't public social services), has been in the system for so long if the governing party tries to abolish it then they will be voted out........There has been erosion's over the years, but there is still a good system in place

This sounds like our Medicare, which I pay into from my social security check, which I believe is $114.00/ month. Everyone pays into social security and most young people are upset because our generation, the Baby Boomers are most abundant and are using the benefits at a phenominal rate.

 

[MaxPete]

You are right, Jim. But he also mentioned that socialized medicine was not an incentive for people to train as doctors, as it was less lucrative, so there is a shortage of doctors.

That is also wrong - sorry but he was talking through his hat.

 

[Goldenboy]

Lets go a little further into this.....

A few yrs. ago an MRI showed that the cortisone shots in my knee had done all they could. The wait for my knee replacement surgery was a tad over 5 months. And this is different from "socialized" medicine....how exactly?

Once again, I'm going to say I agree with what you are saying as I've spoken to surgeons in the locker room for surgery and they have similar gripes. They go to school for 6 to 8 years, have huge tuition expenses and also, malpractice insurance expenses which have skyrocketed due to the lawyers waiting to pounce. Some say they're sorry they didn't get into something else and would discourage others from getting into the field. Still others, the rare ones just love what they do, and concede the money could be better, but when you see them repair a broken bone they look like a master craftsman woodworker. So, yes there are money considerations causing similar problems and throw in demographics of people who all need their services at once. The problems are similar, with the exception of lower cost/ reimbursement for all ages with socialized medicine.

 

[Jim]

You are right, Jim. But he also mentioned that socialized medicine was not an incentive for people to train as doctors, as it was less lucrative, so there is a shortage of doctors.

Well, it's my opinion that if the only reason you'd train to be a doctor is because the profession is "lucrative".... it's probably best that you do stay away from it. Maybe Wall St. would be a better fit.

 

[Goldenboy]

ZACKLEY - and if he said that he would have waited six months for treatment for a broken ankle in Canada, he was totally FOS - or he was stroking you GB.

No, Pete. He never said he would wait 6 months for emergency surgery. Hospitals always have to have priorities, but this is a good example we were taught. There are two people in the emergency room. One has a broken ankle with a bone sticking out his leg. The other complains of chest pain. Who do you treat first? Chest pains take priority. This patient might die in short order.

 

[Goldenboy]

Well, it's my opinion that if the only reason you'd train to be a doctor is because the profession is "lucrative".... it's probably best that you do stay away from it. Maybe Wall St. would be a better fit.

Yeah, and I've seen all kinds...