https://www.650central.com/fso_your_bike_chokes_off_at_stopl.htm
testing in the above link. Rewound rotor is my fix choice if it failed.
testing in the above link. Rewound rotor is my fix choice if it failed.
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Help save my trip! Bike doesn't run when warm
- Thread starter Bjorn
- Start date
RE: Your video. Your tach is showing the ignition system going haywire. It's jumping around because ignition is jumping around... causing your problem. Turning the lights off fixed it, so we now know it's an electrical problem and not fuel or fuel vent related. Now, is it something in the charging system, or is it related to some other elec problem? Turning off the light fixes it (going by the video). Try disconnecting the reg/rec and see what happens when you turn the lights off and on. If it runs OK like that (light on and off), then it's most likely a charging problem. If the tach goes wonky when you turn the light on (reg/rec still disconnected), something in your lighting circuit is causing it most likely.
As most have indicated it is either fuel or ignition. If you have a clear fuel filter you should see fuel in it , course the vacuum issue could give a false indication. But the stumbling sounds more like ignition. Fuel issue usually result in no engine response , sounds like it is starving for fuel when the throttle is opened up. You decide on this.
So one thing it could be is the typical loose connection commonly experienced by 650 owners. The cheap bullet connector can breakdown as current heats the connection. Not sure if this will be your problem but then again it just might pinpoint it is in your wiring connectors. So try this if nothing else works.
Make you up a 3 foot jumper wire with a 10 amp fuse in in it. You can get a fuse and holder at your local auto store. Attach insulated gator clips at each end. You will also need a paper clip and some electrical tape too. Locate the Red/white wire at the ignition coil. Slide a piece of the paper clip into the R/W plug connection at the coil. Make sure it is touching the metal bullet connector inside. Clip one end of the jumper gator to the paper clip . Wrap tape around it so it wont short out. Now since you probably have the tank off to do this put it back on.
Get you bike ready to ride. Once you are ready carefully clip the other gator clip jumper to the battery PLUS post. An alternative is the starter solenoid Plus post coming from the battery. it is up to your judgement as to how to do this so it doesn't come loose.
Start the bike up and go riding. If after the time you noted it doesn't start stumbling and such you probably have a loose connection in your wiring. the headlight can is a likely place. Look for all the R/W wires and plugs and wiggle them to check for looseness.
If this does not stop the problem let us know and we'll dig deeper. Good Luck!
UK
Kenintn
usuly causes engine
Before you start pulling brushes and disconnecting yes and that Travis.
In the dutch video the engine does not seem to be stumbling. If you listen it is idling smoothly yet the tach is jumping around. On a standard 650 this tends to indicate the tach cable is worn out, dry and or bent in to tight of a radius causing the internal cable to seize up then quiuckly release (PoP) causing a tach RPM jump. Or could be a worn out tach if high milage .
The Dutch tach looks to be an electronic one (digital readout, lower left. May still have a tach cable but at any rate the engine even when revved sounds smooth (IMHO)
The Dutch tach looks to be an electronic one (digital readout, lower left. May still have a tach cable but at any rate the engine even when revved sounds smooth (IMHO)
Bjorn
XS650 Addict
Bike is not running smooth in the video for sure. And yes this new tacho gets and inductive signal from one of the plug leads.
I justed checked the batt voltage:
Ignition off: 12,7v
Ignition on: 12,2v
Ignition on, low beam on: 11,8v
None with a running engine.
Is it me or is that really low. I did not use the bike for over 10 months. Maybe it's broken and can't hold a charge?
Gonna measure the rotor now.
I justed checked the batt voltage:
Ignition off: 12,7v
Ignition on: 12,2v
Ignition on, low beam on: 11,8v
None with a running engine.
Is it me or is that really low. I did not use the bike for over 10 months. Maybe it's broken and can't hold a charge?
Gonna measure the rotor now.
Regarding the post about using a jumper. i guess i should have explained what this was doing.
By using the jumper you are bypassing all the electrical connection from the battery to the coils.
The path is ... battery to main fuse (connections) Main fuse to ignition switch (connections),
ignition switch to 10 amp ignition fuse (connections) ignition fuse to Engine run switch, (connections),
and engine run switch to coils (connections), then parallel connections over to electronic ignition module.
As you can see there are a lot of places a loose connection could occur.
By using the jumper you are bypassing all the electrical connection from the battery to the coils.
The path is ... battery to main fuse (connections) Main fuse to ignition switch (connections),
ignition switch to 10 amp ignition fuse (connections) ignition fuse to Engine run switch, (connections),
and engine run switch to coils (connections), then parallel connections over to electronic ignition module.
As you can see there are a lot of places a loose connection could occur.
Bjorn
XS650 Addict
Ken, my wiring loom is build from the ground up. No bullet connectors anywhere on my bike. I use automotive and heavy equipment styles like amp super seal and deutsh. Not saying this can't go wrong but I've spend lots attention on this because I learned the hard way about bad connections haha.
Are you suggesting a jumper from the batt to the coil? Why would the coil act up on a certain rpm range? Wouldn't this be a long the entire range?
I just checked the rotor resistance cold with the brushes removed. It's 5,3 ohm.
Stator is around 0,5 ohm between the three leads. Should be ok according the the manual.
Don't know how to check this hot or with the issue present? Drive until the problem and then remove the brushes?
I have another bike, would it help to mount that battery on to the seat and take it for a spin?
Are you suggesting a jumper from the batt to the coil? Why would the coil act up on a certain rpm range? Wouldn't this be a long the entire range?
I just checked the rotor resistance cold with the brushes removed. It's 5,3 ohm.
Stator is around 0,5 ohm between the three leads. Should be ok according the the manual.
Don't know how to check this hot or with the issue present? Drive until the problem and then remove the brushes?
I have another bike, would it help to mount that battery on to the seat and take it for a spin?
If that's the easiest way to deactivate the charging system... then yes, just remove a brush and see if the problem goes away.
Bike is not running smooth in the video for sure. And yes this new tacho gets and inductive signal from one of the plug leads.
If you say so on the running rough but .... WDR What I see on the video is the tach jumping all over the place and then it jumps to 4,000 rpm while the engine sound stays basically at the same low RPM. Then when the engine is revved, the tach does not respond. I'm just noting what I saw.
BUT, ... let's not focus on it is, it isn't but rather trying to get you going.
The 12.7 battery voltage you note is by most considered fully charged. The 11.2 is concerning, but depending on the load. Halogen headlight(s)
However the main thing is how low does it drop when you try to crank your engine and will it crank your engine well.
If you read the batter voltage and crank the motor the battery voltage should not drop below around 9.5 volts.
Finally, if you have 12 volts while the engine is running and when it is stumbling it is not battery related. The electronic ignition system should fire properly at 11 volts or more. OK, that's batteries, let's get to your charging system you note concerns .
Marty's (jetmechmarty) post on checking your alternator is good and one everyone should print out and put in you tech tips folder for hard times.
Here is a little addition to it, a quick check if you will.
To determine the actual condition of the rotor AND your charging system you can check it , what we electrical folks say UNDER LOAD.
This rules out the regulator, the wiring harness, the brushed, and the rotor. if all tests result positive.
Before performing the following turn on the ignition and run switch, do not start, and measure your battery's voltage. Write it down. Turn off ignition switch.
Step 1 Remove the Brown wire from the alternator brush screw. tighten the screw back
Step 2 Set your meter (you do have one yes
Step 3 Connect the RED meter lead to the Brown wire.
Step 4 Turn the ignition and run switch on like you are about to start your bike. (DO NO START)
step 5 Touch the BLACK meter lead to the brush screw where the brown wire was connected.
Step 6 Read the amps being drawn on your meter.
Step 7 Turn off ignition
Now, take the battery voltage reading you previously go and divide it by the amp reading you just got.
EX: 12.3v / 2.4a = 5.125
What we just did was an electrical load calculation to determine the resistance of your rotor. The value should be right around 5 ohms
If it is less than 4 it means your rotor windings are breaking down. Greater than 7 means either your brushes aren't making good contact or you have a loose connection issue. Seldom does it mean rotor issues.
Bottom line... This is a test to see if there is a problem. If your readings are not between 4 to 6 then you refer to Marty's test procedure to pinpoint the issue.
Hope this will be of help.
Hope you get your bike running so you can make the meet.
Let us know your results if you do the tests because... inquiring minds want To know!
Some info you can use if you choose..
UK
Kenintn
Bjorn
XS650 Addict
Guys this bike is totally f#cking me over. I've about had It.
After a long day I decided to do some testing. Even though it's evening.
I swapped the reg rec to do a testride. Turned out I switched to leads in a connector housing. Guess I smoked one reg/rec because after burning the fuse I had no charging. Voltage at the rotor was like 3v.
Changed back to the reg/rec I had and ghetto mounted the battery from my other bike to see if that made any difference.
Went riding for about 40m, and behold the bike started to misfire and stumble again. I tried to ride home but the bike was banging from the exhaust and more gas just killed it.
I removed the rotor brushes as quick as I could (btw who came up with the BS design with the fiddley springs and sh/t) to measure the resistance between the sliprings. It was 7,2 ohm
Next I tried to get home with the brushes removed. The bike ran good an strong! It was super sketchy to ride home, lights on and seeing the voltage drop every km. I made it home.
After a long day I decided to do some testing. Even though it's evening.
I swapped the reg rec to do a testride. Turned out I switched to leads in a connector housing. Guess I smoked one reg/rec because after burning the fuse I had no charging. Voltage at the rotor was like 3v.
Changed back to the reg/rec I had and ghetto mounted the battery from my other bike to see if that made any difference.
Went riding for about 40m, and behold the bike started to misfire and stumble again. I tried to ride home but the bike was banging from the exhaust and more gas just killed it.
I removed the rotor brushes as quick as I could (btw who came up with the BS design with the fiddley springs and sh/t) to measure the resistance between the sliprings. It was 7,2 ohm
Next I tried to get home with the brushes removed. The bike ran good an strong! It was super sketchy to ride home, lights on and seeing the voltage drop every km. I made it home.
Bjorn
XS650 Addict
So I don't know exactly what's going on. But if it's the rotor.... Im f@cked. I called carmo the afternoon. They had rotors rewound in stock!!! Just for the early bikes
Heiden tuning is nearby, but closed for holidays.
FML
Heiden tuning is nearby, but closed for holidays.
FML
I doubt it's your rotor. Rising to 7 or so ohms about right when it gets hot... so that's normal. I'm thinking it's the reg/rec based on it running strong and getting you home with the brush(es) removed.
Bjorn
XS650 Addict
Your stator tested good. Are the brushes worn out... possibly losing contact because of not enough spring tension? Could cause it to bounce. That would confuse the hell outta the reg/rec.
Beyond that, I'd say yeah... get another reg/rec. You need another spare anyway...
On a stock bike the coil and the electronic ignition All come off the same 10 amp ignition fuse. I posted a thread showing how many different connectors the circuit went through that could possibly have loose connections.
Since yours is a scratch built harness this wouldn’t apply.
Since yours is a scratch built harness this wouldn’t apply.
I think he's pretty well eliminated connections anyway. This statement.... Next I tried to get home with the brushes removed. The bike ran good an strong! It was super sketchy to ride home, lights on and seeing the voltage drop every km. I made it home.....
tells us that the bike ran good with the alternator disconnected, even with the lights on. Sounds like a charging issue to me.
Bjorn
XS650 Addict
I only tested the rotor. The brushes are about 14mm long. The springs are springy but I noticed it's hard to get the buggers in the hole and the springs perpendicular.
The sliprings look semi decent. I gave them a quick touch with some super fine scotch brite. And cleaned them. There is a small circular groove though
The sliprings look semi decent. I gave them a quick touch with some super fine scotch brite. And cleaned them. There is a small circular groove though
Can you give us a closeup pic? And If I were you, I'd work on getting a spare rotor too. Yours sounds fine for now, but as Marty pointed out earlier, it's not a question of if it will fail, it's a question of when.
Hi again
As before
At times you can see over 14 V . Indicating that perhaps the alternator is working.
If Friday is important . New alternator parts might not be available until then
But regulator and rectifier parts perhaps can be bought over the counter at a Automotive
supplier.
Something like that ..but don't connect it wrong it fries then
https://www.rotatingelectrics.co.uk...-bosch-3-pin-volvo-ford-bmw-wood-auto-vrg3639
As before
At times you can see over 14 V . Indicating that perhaps the alternator is working.
If Friday is important . New alternator parts might not be available until then
But regulator and rectifier parts perhaps can be bought over the counter at a Automotive
supplier.
Something like that ..but don't connect it wrong it fries then
https://www.rotatingelectrics.co.uk...-bosch-3-pin-volvo-ford-bmw-wood-auto-vrg3639
