Hybrid xs650

"When was the last time a cynic changed the world for the better anyway?"
When he helped keep honestly earned money in pockets of the guys that WORKED for it.
Perhaps you will explain how you are getting around the law of conservation of energy? You are breaking apart atomic bonds and then putting them back together and claiming you did it with a net gain of energy. BS plain and simple. Jees I don't think the oil companies even bothered to buy the patents on this one.
 
Give people access to unlimited info via the web a suddenly everyone's an "expert". lol

The "Law of Conservation of Energy" argument is my favorite skeptic's go to objection. You obviously didn't take the time to read my explanation, so I will try to explain it again:

With the partial exception of only the newest fuel injected gas vehicles (which are typically quite efficient overall and only see an average of 5-15% mpg gains), our engines just aren't very efficient overall because we only fully combust from about 13-20% of our current fuels (excluding fuel recapturing systems).

This means whenever you see black soot being ejected from a vehicle, that vehicle's owner is WASTING MONEY. Particulate matter, NOX, hydrocarbons, and everything else are the result of Inefficient Combustion. Hydrogen increases the rate and temperature of your burn across the top of the piston every time, before being ejected as a water vapor (after being combusted).

So there's you're "missing energy" right there! Blowing out your tailpipe. I agree that money should stay in the pockets of those that earn it. I've worked with these guys for going on three years. I have tens of thousands of hours working with these things over that period and am DAMN PROUD of our results.

Please note that these dyno results were performed by a third party auto shop. Also, please take a peak at the Ronn Scorpion if you're at all interested in seeing a beautiful example of an HHO system on a modern super car.

For only the greatest cynics out there, this company used one of our competitor's products on their long haul trucks several years ago, before unfortunately having to discontinue their use. I've actually talked to the head of their fleet. I dare you to tell him that he was "imagining" saving $700 per month per truck!

Haters gonna hate... The fact is that many people aren't going to believe it until they experience it. That's ok by me.

Please keep the question on point, however.
Calling me a "blood sucking leach" while demonstrating no hands-on knowledge of actually hho experience doesn't really move the conversation forward much, does it?

Thanks everyone for your interest!
 
Sorry a blind reaction to being called a troll because I dared to peek under the emperors robe. (nothing there) So; no science, no third party fuel savings tests. Nothing but flim flam BS save me. You claim fuel saving but only show a graph purporting horsepower increases in a fuel injected car. Some company you cited as using (not your but a competitors) product makes no mention of it at your provided link and mysteriously "had" to stop using it. Well I AM impressed.
The old browns gas claims have run out of steam and the latest wrinkle in the ageless free energy scheme is some sort of Catalyst reaction of the feeble amount of hydrogen produced by a Chinese browns gas generator. (Available in 8 exciting colors) Think I will keep the old wallet closed. Oh please provide me with your credentials and background. Me? I am just an old guy who is still waiting for a working perpetual motion machine.
 
Can we get a Moderator to shut this thread down? This is just getting out of hand.

All I wanted to do was share an xs650 modification (wtf is this forum for if not that?) And I end up getting flammed six different ways. If you wanna be skeptical, that is perfectly natural, I was the same way when I first heard about these systems over 2 years ago. But what I didn't do, and what you guys seems really good at, is instantly dismissing something because you don't understand it, or because it wasn't around when these bikes were produced, or whatever it is that is keeping your minds closed. Instead, I went out and researched the technology and read reviews. gggGary: if that makes me gullible then so be it, I'll enjoy the increases in power and mpg regardless of how little you or anyone else believes me. (Oh and if you think speaking in metaphors makes you sound smart it doesn't. Being clear is the best way to facilitate communication, isn't that what we all try to do on this forum?)

You want so much scientific evidence but you are discounting my testimony on absolutely no first hand experience or knowledge of your own what so ever. XJWMX, nice quote in your sig but aren't you being the definition of a hypocrite? You want proof of these things working but you discredit them on no proof at all to the contrary. I'm sorry guys but I can't give you a 200 page scientific journal article on how these work, and that was certainly never my intention. All I know is my first hand experience with them.

Did I come on this post like, yo you all should buy this, i'm a licensed reseller (I'm not), blah blah blah. NO! I came in with a simple and informative explanation of my own experience using this system, why so defensive? I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat. I didn't make mention what so ever that anyone else should buy these. So why even talk about keeping your wallet closed gggGary? No one asked you to open it. When I read a topic about a product someone is reviewing on here and I don't like it I don't flame the OP and say "I would never buy that are you stupid". Have some sense man

You know I was actually upset at the reaction this thread got but now I just have to sit back and laugh. To be called a lair for trying to spread knowledge is frustrating. If I had 500 posts would you believe me? If I had 4 xs'es, one chopped, one cafed, one dirt tracked, and one bone stock and all in prime condition would you believe me? I think I'm going to start developing a fuel system that runs off of ignorance and closed mindedness, you guys would be breaking the law of conversation of energy all day long.

gggGary I'm mostly disappointed in you man, you've helped me with some hard question I've had over the past 3 years and I have a lot of respect for you and what you do for this community.

RANT OFF

Mods please close this thread ! I don't want to fight over this anymore.
 
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Pandorasglocks said:
I think I'm going to start developing a fuel system that runs off of ignorance and closed mindedness, you guys would be breaking the law of conversation of energy all day long.
Click to expand...

- lay 5A across your average politician, would break the laws of both conversation and constipation of energy - the ROE will be phenomenal
 
pandoraglocks,cool it, have been building and using a hydroxy electtrolise gas unit for years.they,re great.! sure youd need a bloody big one to run a small bike motor on the,re own But as a way to increase milage and efficency by 5-20 % is feasible.I have been working with a forum for the last 5 years and could give GGGary enough reading to
prove beyond reasonable doubt.thanks for fitting them to your bike and letting me know your results.
ps the more sodium hydroxide in the solution the more gas for less amps also a bubblier is a good safety item ,ask gohypod, these things bang big if they flash back
 
 
Well I've done my reading. This is another in a long line of Snake Oil salesmen. They are trying to jump on the Hybrid bandwagon with an old trick. Research Browns gas generators and their history. Lot's of fun reading. Takes more energy to produce this gas than the energy it produces. Sorry, there is no free energy in the universe.
 
Tech7 said:
Takes more energy to produce this gas than the energy it produces.
Click to expand...

Like I said, i'm a noob when it comes to electrical systems. But if you are simply drawing electricity that would otherwise go unused and using that to get better gas mileage, then where is the rub ? I mean if you plug a phone charger into your car you don't say, man this free energy is awesome!

I don't think anyone is advertising this as "free energy".

And if anyone would actually read my original post they would see that in my concerns I mentioned how much energy these draw and if the xs650 electrical system could handle it (no one seems to care to answer how many amps the system can spare, or no one knows). It could very well be that after a 3 hour ride my battery dies running two of the units. Good thing I put them on a switch so I could just turn them off and ride around while charging my battery.
 
If you say you can fly by flapping your arms, it's not our job to prove you can't - it's your job to prove you can. But you know that.

Personally, I looked into this about three years ago after a friend asked me to evaluate it for him because he was considering buying a unit. In addition to everything else, it was a multi-level marketing scheme, which is why the customers sound like salesmen.
 
One more comment
The Manufacturer openly states that the output of this thing eats aluminum. Plainly it is very corrosive. The manufacturer states that the output gas MUST be introduced BEFORE the air cleaner. The install I see here has it going inside the air cleaner. directly connected to an ALUMINUM carburetor then into the aluminum head. Oops. I am not sure how passing through an air filter is going to change the corrosive nature of the gas but hey there is probably some top secret catalyst reaction the government doesn't want you to know about that fixes it up real good. The gas produced is explosive! Again the web site states this. with no air filter to act as a flame shield what may happen next? My point in all this was to raise skepticism as to any useful efficiency gains. Look through that web site, it's entertaining. NO contact info beyond a single phone number. Lots of appeals for distributors. The installations shown are ALL hokey near beyond belief. To my poor uneducated mind what they are selling is much like your battery; an anode, a cathode, metal plates bathed in a reactive solution. This uses sodium hydroxide a strong base where your battery uses sulfuric acid. just like your battery when you put electricity into it, it out gasses. You could cut out the middleman, remove your voltage regulator and just run your battery vent tube into your carburetor. (keep your battery water filled) Hmm that doesn't sound like such a good idea either does it? Notice that you have to continually add water and sodium hydroxide to keep this thing working? http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Hazards-of-Sodium-Hydroxide&id=2371291 OK I have had my minute on the soapbox, I will stop posting to this thread. I have to go install my turbo inlet swirl device that will revolutionize the internal combustion engine if I can just stop the government and oil companies from shutting me down
 
xjwmx: I'm not here to prove anything to you. Like I have stated before, I simply wanted to share my own experience. Don't believe me? Fine.

Cruza maybe you can help out on this one since you seem to have some cred and experience. The gas is NOT corrosive correct? It is the water mixture. Again if you read my original post you will see my concerns about this.
 
from h2hypods web site
"The caustic mixture that enables the separation of water inside the H2HyPod is corrosive, similar to the liquid in your battery. It contains the material used in household drain cleaner. Any contact with the skin will be quickly known and should be washed off with water completely and quickly. Any contact with the eyes or, if taken internally is to be taken seriously and dealt with promptly as with any household chemical if ingested or contacted by the eyes or skin."
"Also, Sodium Hydroxide can detrimentally affect aluminum. Many small hoses inside your engine compartment, such as air
conditioning hoses, are manufactured of very thin aluminum. During the installation process, take measures to avoid placing the
H2HyPod where any splash may come into contact with the aluminum, or cover the aluminum with rubber. Many components within
your engine are also made of aluminum, which is why it is important and necessary to install the tubing that delivers the hydrogen
PRIOR to the air filter of your engine. There is no additional benefit of injecting hydrogen directly into the engine. Therefore, utilize
the air filter as a valuable layer of protection between the sodium hydroxide and the aluminum parts of your engine."

Still want to know how an air cleaner designed to keep chunks of stuff out will protect YOUR aluminum from molecular level corrosives. To your original question about amperage: Most motorcycle charging systems are marginal at best, the posted 8 amps draw is big, that is about the draw of 2 more headlight bulbs. At speed it might keep up, at idle or loafing in town speeds your battery is going to be making up the difference. Sorry Pandorasglocks but this got a bit uglier than it should have. I am just trying to prevent the waste of time and money of other people who might be tempted to try something like this.
 
gggGary I hope we can be civil about this now and no hard feelings. I just got upset when people called me a liar with no evidence to the contrary. I don't have anything to gain from this post, other then trying to figure out how much draw the alternator can handle.

From that write up it sounds as if the gas is fine it is the mixture that is corrosive. I'm going out right now with some aluminum foil and I'm just gonna set it above the gas and see if it eats at it or anything while I clean some brake parts.

Is there a way to test how strenuous the units are being? Like checking if the voltage is dropping below a certain mark while the engine is revved?
 
Sure use a volt meter just grab a $5 harbor freight or farm and fleet VOM. hook it in pretty much anywhere and keep an eye on it. scab a volt meter off any old car or what ever. you might want to hook up an amp meter to the unit my guess is it will not draw as much as they claim at least not for long. Just a guess, but sulfation (Sodiumation?) will probably slow the reaction in the unit reducing it's power use (and gas production). I am actually very interested in gas saving. Unfortunately it normally requires a bunch of hard work both to achieve and prove. I am a true believer in fuel efficiency, my car was a Geo metro 3 cylinder stick (40 plus MPG) till I started delivering a rural mail route and had to get an automatic so I bought a used Prius. (50 MPG) 138,000 hard miles on it now. I like the big VTX1800 Hondas but their mileage sucks so I stick with my Honda shadow 1100 and XS650's A guess is that you could improve XS650 efficiency with careful tuning and making sure it is in top mechanical condition. 60MPG on relatively stock bikes is often mentioned here.
 
Pandorasglocks said:
Initial Tests: On the same 30 mile ride, with an average cruising speed of 50:
Without the units: 40mpg
With the units: 47mpg

After 30 miles of in town without the units: 30 mpg
After 30 miles of in town with the units: 36 mpg
(In town driving is so hard to quantify though!)

Top speed without the units, 80-82mph. I could sit there for 10 mins with the throttle maxed in 4th gear without going above 80-82.
Top speed with the units, 90mpg. I hit 90 with at around 7k rpm in 4th gear but I need to do some more suspension upgrades before I'm comfortable going faster then that (Long overdue but just got my bronze swing arm bushings in!)

Overall:
These things are awesome so far, better gas mileage, hp, and topspeed for $100 a unit that runs off of distilled water? yes please. Unfortunately I was having engine problems before I installed these guys (See tappet misaligned thread) that makes me really nervous going on rides longer then like 20 miles. I want to do some full gas tank rides with these things on and off on the highway to get a really good comparison but that will have to wait.

Thoughts??
Click to expand...

Quote from txpowdercoater. Average speed on straights was 70-75, main group was a lot faster but I didnt want to spin it up that high for such long distances, so we kept it happy, I ran valvoline 60 wt and the motor was a "1 kick" hot or cold the whole trip, averaged 53 mpg at those speeds through the hot texas hill country, twistys and turns and small hills and valleys, running stock carbs with mikes xs needles and jets and my 1.75" 2 into 1 pipes.
Bike was fully loaded with saddle bags and duffle bag on back and tent strapped to the apes. Unquote.

Pandorasglocks, When you have the bike set up properly and get the gains you quote on top of normal MPG then you can talk about fuel savings and such. If my bike was getting 30 around town and 40 on the highway i would be concerned. I quoted from txpowdercoater cause with a fully loaded bike at 70-75 he is still getting over 50mpg
 
Fair enough 650skull. I guess this post was premature then. It will probably be years before I get this bike into prime condition, if ever. I'm leaving for the peace corps for 2 years next summer so this summer is all I have left to work on the bike and I doubt I'll get everything done I want to get done. So maybe check back in like 5 years if it must be in prime condition for these tests. But in the meantime, are there any reccomendations you have for helping with gas mileage? My carbs are in really good tune, cam chain is in adjustment and valves are adjusted. What else can I do ? I do currently have BPR6EIX plugs in, will switching to 7s help with gas mileage? Also I have stock ignition system, perhaps getting a pamco would boost my mpg as well?
 
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hmm if thats all your getting for fuel millage and top speed, better send your motor up and have it massaged cause with this thing you gots on your bike any of my bikes do without this unit and then some. THIS IS A JOKE.
 
My xs 650 does indeed get OVER 50 mpg already, stock carbs, rejetted and open exhaust, proven over and over and over and over mpg's.
 

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