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important engine oil question

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Tiesco, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    I have a bottle of this at home. It does have ZDDP. Somewhere on the bottle it says, "NOT FOR USE WITH WET CLUTCHES".

    ZDDP has been removed from diesel oil. Buy the ZDDP bottle for break-in and add it to your favorite engine oil. That's the opinion of me. Me is not an expert. Do what I say at your own peril.
     
  2. Tiesco

    Tiesco XS650 Addict

    Doesnt yamalube oil have ZDDP in it?
     
  3. GLJ

    GLJ Never go faster than your guardian angle can fly. Top Contributor

    I checked the bottles I have and find nothing about wet clutches. It does say it has friction modifiers in it. That might be what you are thinking of.
    I've been using it with no clutch problems that I can tell. But then I don't run it all that hard. I think the best oil to use is whatever you are comfortable with.
    I think the only 2 thing most people may agree on when it comes to oil is any oil is better than no oil and new clean oil is better than old dirty oil.
    I do enjoy oil threads. It's interesting to see what other people are using. I sure I've read about more than 2 dozen different oils that guys are running. Everybody seems happy with what they are using.
    I know all too well that oil is the life blood of a engine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
    Paul Sutton, gggGary and jetmechmarty like this.
  4. 59Tebo

    59Tebo 59Tebo Top Contributor

    FWIW, I heard the regular, average 20W-50 Wal-Mart brand oil is pretty good. I always thought doing oil changes at the proper intervals was more important than what you're doing your oil changes with. At 1,000 mile intervals, your oil should hardly be dirty! This is after you've been running it regularly for a while, and has "cleaned" itself out. Save the oil and use it in your lawn mower! (After running it through a coffee filter, in case there's any particulates...) :twocents:
     
  5. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    I'm using it, but I suspect it has been mostly removed. It's a gov't mandate thing, I believe.
     
    Paul Sutton, GLJ and gggGary like this.
  6. Tiesco

    Tiesco XS650 Addict

    so then it would be easier to just add some separately?
     
  7. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    That is my assumption.
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  8. David Toll

    David Toll Reliving my youth?

    Followed the oil debates with some interest - there have been a few of them over the years. The results are idiosyncratic but there do appear to be some commonalities. 20/50 is the weight most recommended though 20/40 is the weight cited in the manuals. The advantage of the 50 weight is engine noise reduction. Those in colder climes may find a lower initial weight rating more suitable for cold start. Castrol and Valvoline seem to be popular brands. Mineral oil is preferred over semi or full synthetic. ZDDP or a zinc additive is generally supported. Diesel oils like Rotella are also popular because their detergent content simulates the composition of oils from the era in which the bikes were manufactured. Regular and relatively short interval oil changes, (800 - 1600km) are highly advised limiting the adoption of highly priced, "sophisticated" oils. Regular cleaning or replacement of filters is also reccommended.
    Like everyone else, I will give my opinion. I have filled my rebuilt motor with Valvoline XLD 20w/50. Why? Because it meets all of the criteria listed above, is recommended by experts on this forum and at $14.50 AUD, (that's $9.60 USD) for 4 litres,I will be able to afford to toss it every 800km.
     
    Grimly, Paul Sutton, Oddjob and 2 others like this.
  9. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Try to find a 20-40 anywhere else other than the Yamaha shop, that's the only place I've ever seen it, and be prepared to hand over your first born for some, lol.
     
    Paul Sutton, Mailman and David Toll like this.
  10. grizld1

    grizld1 Grumpy old man Top Contributor

    Diesel oils differ in JASO specs. "MA" is compatible with wet clutches, "MB" is for use with centrifugal clutches in ATVs and the like. I use Shell Rotella 15/40 diesel oil with a product called ZDDPlus, which is reasonably priced if you buy it right--it pays to shop.
     
  11. pjc

    pjc XS650 Enthusiast

    Lucas 20-50 air cooled motorcycle oil. Dinosaur based (petroleum)
     
    TTManiac likes this.
  12. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    Hey now! 5 Twins said he likes that stuff, so that was good enough for me! It’s cheap as chips, I buy it in the 5 qt jugs, I change oil a lot and have been very happy with it. I get absolutely no clutch issues with it. By the way I was using Valvoline motorcycle oil which was way more expensive, and every time I went to start my cold bike, my clutch plates were stuck together something fierce. I do not have that issue with Wally World oil.
    5869FD79-04D7-44BA-997C-ECF1DBE8B486.jpeg
     
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  13. David Toll

    David Toll Reliving my youth?

    So the Walmart stuff is 20w/50 API SN and the Valvoline gear is API SG. I wonder what the hell that means, it's the only difference I can find. Unhappily, we in the Antipodes are denied the pleasure of Walmart's company, (if you'll pardon the pun). What do you call cheap Bob?
     
    Paul Sutton and GLJ like this.
  14. arcticXS

    arcticXS XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    First of all, I have limited experience of extended mileage XS engines, so do not have any strong opinions on this slippery subject....
    But, as at least one other member points out, the oil grade used should to some degree reflect the local temperature where the bike is ridden, as well as how it is ridden. I for one, use my bikes in any temperature above freezing, and due to local speed limitis mostly stay below 60-65 mph. Someone road racing an XS in a hot climate, or even cruising the Autobahn at 80-90 mph surely need somewhat higher viscosity oil than me, living a half days ride above the Arctic Circle.
    Also, say a 5w50 is not supposed to be thinner than a straight 50 oil at operating temperatures. It just has a superior viscosity index, so does not get syrupy at low temps. Sort of having the cake, and eating it too. Must be good for the sump filter, at least.
    Then there is the matter of oil change intervals vs oil filter arrangement. Could it be that short recommended change intervals are due to the cleaning requirements of the oem filter? And also its limited filtering ability, leading to contaminated oil? If so, a spin on or remote filter setup should help a lot with extending safe oil change intervals. On the other hand, if the ball and roller bearings in the XS somehow break the long molecular chains in the oil and additives, then that would be the determining factor. I believe someone marketed engine oils specifically for roller/ball bearing engines. Perhaps HD, or one of the single cyl specialists, like KTM or Husqvarna.
    In any case, air cooled 2 valve Ducati engines have ball main bearings, ball camshaft bearings, plain big end bearings, but little pressure on cam and rockers, due to hardly any spring pressure. And I will happily run one of those at least 5000 miles between oil changes. They do have a car sized spin on oil filter, so most likely that plays a major role.
     
    Paul Sutton, David Toll and GLJ like this.
  15. Mailman

    Mailman Hardly a Guru Top Contributor

    I think I’ve been paying less than $13 U.S. dollars for a 5 qt jug.
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  16. cafetools

    cafetools XS650 Addict

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    Anyone else use the shell rotella 15 40 deisel oil in the 5gt jugs? I heard it has no additives or friction modifies. It's also cheap.
     
  17. David Toll

    David Toll Reliving my youth?

    5 quarts is around 4.75l. 4l is only around 4.2 qts. That's the size this product comes in here. I got the Valvoline at a half price sale from Woolworths, (super market chain), so it is normally $29 AUD. That is currently $19 USD for 4l. Your Walmart oil is cheap!
    Lucky bugger!
     
    Paul Sutton and Mailman like this.
  18. jetmechmarty

    jetmechmarty XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    My XS650 has almost 60K miles on it. I’ve done nothing but routine maintenance. I do regular oil changes, but I’m not good at tracking the mileage. I use Yamalube, Valvoline, Mobil 1, Castrol, Rotella, and whatever else is available when I need it. I don’t think brand makes an appreciable difference. The best oil is clean and slippery.
     
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  19. arcticXS

    arcticXS XS650 Guru Top Contributor

    Then my question is: What type of oil filter do you have, and what replacement or cleaning interval? What type of riding, city stop and go, highway or country road? I guess the Missisippi climate is rather warm most of the time, at least above 20C ?
     
    Paul Sutton likes this.
  20. YamadudeXS650C

    YamadudeXS650C Central New York XS650 XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    Maybe its just me, but I'm thinking there has got to be some new topics to discuss.

    [​IMG]
     
    lakeview, grizld1, GLJ and 3 others like this.

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