Just rode a Norton

Royboy

Royboy

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Please understand, I mean no disrespect to my British brothers. But, I just rode my buddy's recently purchased 75' Norton 850 Commando ($11,000). First Brit bike I've ever ridden. My knowledge base has been Japanese bikes and a couple Harleys thrown in during the 90's. I'm sorry but the Norton felt like agricultural equipment. Crude, recalcitrant and not at all friendly. Did my buddy get a bad bike? Am I expecting too much? Tell me my experience is not typical. Otherwise I don't see what all the fuss has been about. I must be missing something.:wtf:

roy
 
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After being accustomed to our XS650's, its all down hill from there:)

A friend of mine had an 850 Norton, back in the mid 1970's. He bought it new, at the same time I bought an 1976 XS500C new. I couldn't see that the Norton was any thing special. He raved about its handling.
 
I recall back in the mid '70's that Nortons could be had for a song as basket cases. Never saw many for sale that were up and running......always basket cases. Kinda left an impression.
 
RG I had a 1975 xs500. Ater Yamaha replaced the flawed head it was a very good bike. not very good mpg 45 at the most.
 
tonyc said:
RG I had a 1975 xs500. Ater Yamaha replaced the flawed head it was a very good bike. not very good mpg 45 at the most.
Click to expand...

My 1976 XS500C had no problems with the head. In fact the bike had no problems at all. I had it for 13 years. Engine had no vibes at all due to the balancer. It would do the Ton:yikes:
 
Royboy, the mid `70s were troubling times for brit machines (Harley Sportsters, too). Sales were slipping, retooling, new outsourcing, and a transitional blend of standards (English, Whitworth, metric), frame redesigns/shakedowns (oil in frame), the loss of BSA, Triumph almost went under, attempts to satisfy a changing/competitive American market (dominated/overrun by jap bikes), plus changes to the Norton isolastic system (could see the engine wobble now), all added up to mixed and disappointing experiences like yours. The pre-transitional Nortons were pretty cool, including the pre-unit Atlas. I'm sure there's folks that were happy with the machines of this era, but we experienced an increasing number of service issues and disatisfied customers.
 
It's all about taste, and what you have become used to. The Nortons I've ridden didn't press any buttons with me (mean, raw, unpleasant), but my BSA A10 chopper was a brilliant bike, and the engine was reliable and really looked good, too. The XS650 is very close to that in characteristics I go for in bikes.

Anlaf
 
I recently read a magazine test article written in the mid 1970s. I do not remember what publication and author. He said the XS650 twin Yamaha was "Virtually vibration free" compared to a Triumph. So- the Brit twins must REALLY shake things up! This really blew me away because after getting used to my XS1100 my XS650 made my hands tingly and numb immediately from the vibrations!!!!!! I love my 650 and appreciate its cool factor- the sound the look and yes the vibrations! I love the look of the BSA's- chrome tank and beautiful engine.
 
Brit bikes like the XS650 vibrated if not set up right. The lower the compression less the vibration. The Thunderbolts, like mine, with lower compression vibrated less. Also only one carb.
 
I serviced a 1970 650 Boneville about 5 years ago that was much smoother than my OIF 750 Bonneville. My 1971 Norton was fantastic for its day but certain parts were unreliable which muddied the Norton experience. The bike weighed 384 lbs. and was very fast for the time. I sold the Norton and bought a series of Japanese bikes but could not stand the handling. Ended up with the Triumph I have now.

I read about Nortons now and what the guys do to them to get them up to more acceptable handling and reliability. Lots of work but it must be worth it because many smart people do it. Jerry Branch said a stock Norton head flowed as well as an XR750 head. I still think Norton and Triumph win the Vintage races so they must have something going for them.

Tom, but I still love my $100 XS650.
 
My BSA A10 had one carb, and it was no great shakes in the vibration stakes (what have I just written?). So, is there a correlation between the vibration on a twin and the number of carbs?

Anlaf
 
the thing with british bikes is you either love them or hate them.i went thru a long love affair with them but after 3 of them im done.a 69 bonnie chopper,a 65 bsa 500, and a 77 oil frame 750 5 speed.this streched over 30 yrs.with the first two looking back, i had them as a kid, i just thought my mechanic skills were not up to snuff.and i was pretty good mechanic for a younger guy.harleys, tractors, cars, trucks,bulldozers, etc all got fixed in short order.no problems.

so more as a challenge than anything else when i was about 38 i purchased a 77 oil frame bonnie.rebuilt the tranny, that worked fine,rebuilt top end, bottom looked fine.engine was sound.and it ran like a raped ape. i even built manifolds and put carbs off a 360 2 stroke polaris snow machine on it.mikunis.ran great.

but getting them goofy lucas electrics to work and charge the battery was just beyond me.im not sure what a zeiner diode does but i never want to see another one on any of my bikes!

i love the look and feel of a trumpet or a norton, and yeah i love recalitraint farm machinery.and i love the ringing exhaust note and the way they pull when tuned rite. but good lord that lucas guy should of been burned at the stake! it would be a mild punishment for what he did to the british bike industry.
 
hi guys,,, a while ago there was a guy that was trying to start building modern norton motocycles,,,, kenny dreer,,, i think,,, anyway i saw it on the internet,,, he even showed his own test track ,,, and the norton was black gloss and gold pin stripe with a half naked blonde lieing across the side of the bike on a beach towell,,, any he sent me prices which was $22,000 australia and 3 months delivery..... of cources i said NO bloody way... he kept sending me updates ... he did have trouble with the epa ,,, and 1 year on he still hadn,t rolled 1 off the production line ,,,, he ended up folding and going broke.... but it still looked a nice bike... ah.......... well back to dream land regards oldbiker
 
I've been a Brit car and bike fan for many moons but I don't turn a blind eye to their flaws. Here's what was happening at the time: in the 1950's and '60's the Brit bikes and cars were the standard to which others aspired. H-D and Indian were still mired in the 1930's and 1940's, the Jap bikes were all cute little step throughs or basically toys, if you wanted a performance bike you bought a BSA or Triumph. The Japanese shipped those toys over here because the bikes generally built over there were as transportation for their home markets and they simply exported them to America.

The Japanese manufacturers were looking at the huge US market and wondering how to make inroads so rather than trying to clobber the main market held by H-D after Indian went under they started working on designs that would better the Brits. This was happening with cars, too; in the 1960's you either drove a muscle car or a British sports car. Same with Datsun and Toyota, they didn't go after the main market, they went after a toehold which would allow them to start making a name and growing their business. That's where the Brock Racing Enterprises 510 Datsuns came from.

In the late 1960's and early 1970's Honda, Yamaha and Datsun unleashed their products designed to grab market share from the Brits: the CB450 and CB750, the XS1/XS650 and the 1600/2000 Roadster and the 240Z. The Brits were caught off guard from an engineering standpoint. To make things worse for them, the British car and bike industry was in deep trouble over the labor unions etc and just did not have the financial resources to upgrade their products to meet the threat. They did styling and detail changes to try to counteract the hit their market was taking and Triumph/BSA even went as far as the Trident engine in the bikes, but that was still a pushrod design when everything from the Orient was OHC.

Same thing with cars, the MGB was still the same basic car from 1962 which was itself a rehashing of the MGA, if it was put next to a 240Z holy cow was it outdated. The TR6 and Spitfire both came from the same 1950's and 1960's technology, in fact the Spitfire traces its ancestry back to 1948, the engine even earlier like 1936. That's not to say some of the Brits didn't try, at the time my Jensen Healey would outrun, outbrake and outhandle the 240Z (just read the road tests!) but it was a case of too little too late.

So when you ride a 1970's Triumph, BSA or Norton or drive a 1970's British sports car you are actually riding/driving the cream of 1950's and 1960's technology and that's why they seem so primitive. Still cool and beautiful machines in their own right.
 
The Brit bike industry died because of complacency and mismanagement unfortunately, however we should not forget that in the 50s all the Japanese companies were making direct copies of stolen technologies well into the 60s (the XS650 was born from one such design) and that from after the war until the 80s the Japanese had the most prolific Industrial Espionage campaigns across all their industries, i.e. Sangyo Supai's and the IBM case etc... that said I do like some Jap bikes.

Can't say I'm a fan of any Nortons, or any of the 70s Brit bikes, but give me their 50-60s stuff anyday!

Triumph Bonnie T120R.. yes please
BSA Rocket Gold star.. Yes Please!
Vincent Black Shadow..YES PLEASE!!!!
 
acebars said:
...stolen technologies well into the 60s (the XS650 was born from one such design) ...most prolific Industrial Espionage campaigns,
Click to expand...

My understanding is the xs650 (engine) was a purchased German design.
 

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