Lowering question

[grizld1]

To actually answer the OP's question, stock shocks are 12.75" as measured at the eyelet centers. If you want one of these bikes to handle better than Granny's minivan, you'll raise the rear with taller shocks (at least 13.25" for Standards, at least 13.5" for Specials) and lower the front around 1/2" by dropping the clamps. Of course I realize the chopjockies are way too cool to get in any kind of hurry in the corners.

Opie, if it ever rains in Waco you might think twice about running without a front fender. And yeah, if you want that bike to handle you'd best use a fork brace, fender or not.

You're either going to set up your bike for the way you mean to ride it first and figure out the cosmetics later, or you're going to follow some notion of style and then figure out how to ride the thing. What do suppose makes more sense?

 

[Punkskalar]

Ydyawanna do that? It woe gew rowend cornas!

The rear tyre will scuff the inside of the mudguard and the fork sliders will bottom out on the lower triple clamp...

Nah, go on, do it and tell us what happens

If you lower the forks properly, this is not true

 

[twindallas]

OK. So I definitely would like to lower it, but I don't want my rear tire to rub and I don't want the front to bottom out. If I swap to a set of 11.5 rear shocks, what can I do to the front to even everything out, (without having "bottom out" issues)? If I can't, I'll just ride it like it is. I don't hate it!

 

[Punkskalar]

OK. So I definitely would like to lower it, but I don't want my rear tire to rub and I don't want the front to bottom out. If I swap to a set of 11.5 rear shocks, what can I do to the front to even everything out, (without having "bottom out" issues)? If I can't, I'll just ride it like it is. I don't hate it!

IF you slide the tubes up in the trees (lazy mans lowering kit) - you will have issues with possibly hitting the lower tree. Lowering the forks internally, reduces the amount of travel, firms up the forks, etc...

This bike was built 3.5" lower than OEM in the front, and I rode it quite hard, jumped rail road tracks, etc.. I never once "bottomed it out" - the ride was firm for sure, but never that feeling of "slamming" at the top of the travel. Just for comparison.

 

[twindallas]

Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. I'm still trying to decide if I want to change the stance at all. The more info I have the better.

 

[twindallas]

Do you have a pic and/or source for a fork brace for a 78 650S?

 

[grizld1]

There's nothing "lazy" about dropping the clamps on the forks by 1/2". Full travel will be retained and with properly rated springs it will be possible to set laden sag at a level that will allow the tire to achieve good compliance without bottoming the suspension. If you want to know how to set up a decent suspension, go to www.totalcontroltraining.net and download the free Suspension 101 ebook.

 

[arcticXS]

As always Grizld makes more sense than the rest combined.....
Twindallas, as far as I understand, your bike is a 78, which means the fork has top out springs from the factory, which is a good thing. On my 77, the "clank" of the forks topping out under accelleration is really annoying......

If starting out with a stock setup in good condition, I would suggest the following changes:

-New linear springs with spring rates according to rider and bike weight, and riding style
-Race Tech gold valve emulators
-Alloy or PVC spring spacers cut to length for desired spring preload
-If reduced travel/lowered fork is desirable, the lowering spacer should incorporate a top out spring for reasons described above. If the fork has no top out spring, adding one will lower the front somewhat.
-Less than 100-120 mm of fork travel is ill advised, function will definitely suffer.
-Longer rear shocks with more travel would be preferrable. My Ohlins shocks with 100 mm shock travel will give around 120 mm of rear wheel travel, without any risk of hitting the rear fender or the frame.
-"Cool" or "Rad" is never as good as "Good"

 

[twindallas]

Thanks to both articXS & grizld1 for the feedback. Although I've been riding and working on my own bikes for years, I've never tried lowering the front end on one. I removed the front fender due to rust through, and with the exception of a few sarcastic remarks, most have been helpful. Since I have never lowered the front end, I just figured I'd ask enough questions to hopefully make an educated decision. Thanks again for the information that was actually helpful!

 

[vsop-dk]

My bike is lowered 2" with Hughs lowering kit and Allso the rear is lowered with 11" harley shocks from a showel I believe. The swingarm mounts for the shocks had to be modified and new custom made brackets were welded on 3cm in width so the shocks would fit in.

The drive is perfect and gives a great feel of the road. Although I've only spinned up and down the road it felt great and didn't hit the fender or anything else.

 

[grizld1]

vsop, if you want to know if "the drive is perfect," throw that scoot over to about 40* of heel in a bumpy corner, lay on throttle at the apex, and see if it holds the line. As Paul Thede of Race Tech has famously written, "The best you've ridden is the best you know."

OP, 5twins has listed a number of good braces, and you might go to www.tkat.com as well; quality product, decent price.

Arctic, thanks for the kind words.

 

[vsop-dk]

@grizld1 what can I say, I'm not a speed deamon and won't get near suggested.

Guess there are different views on what preferred rides are.

I'll jump in my xj900 if I want to step up a notch, but I'm more a relaxed driver and enjoy the ride and style

Thanks though for the suggested.[emoji106]

 

[wherearewe]

The thing this is all a balancing act. It seems you want the bike to look a certain way, but still ride.

Ok so an XS650 is not exactly a performance machine. If your building a race bike for some retro race day meet then absolutely listen to Grizld1 cause he knows his stuff & don't mess about lowering it.

But if your just riding your bike on sundays and treating it like the fine old lady she is, a small drop should be ok.
Since some kid on a stock CBR would laugh all day if we started measuring performance specs, even on a heavily performance focused XS, I'm not entirely convinced that that alone is be all and end all here. Just my 2 cents & i lowered my front 1 inch (+use a fender).

 

[vsop-dk]

wherearewe I'll second that [emoji106]

 

[Royboy]

Being vertically challenged, (as they say) I tend to lower any street bike that I can't flat foot. For my XS's that's 1" down, front and rear, using Hugh's spacers up front and either Hagon Custom or Progressive shocks set up for my weight on the rear. I do not doubt that handling is a bit compromised but let's face it, at this point in my life I'm not testing the limits anymore. I do remove the brake line union under the lower tree since that's been known to dent a fender back when I used to raise the tubes in the tree. Is ground clearance compromised? Of course. Do I scrape things in the corners? Occasionally the centerstand arm on the left side. Am I happy? Pretty much.

roy

 

[twindallas]

Love that bike vsop! I think my riding style is more like yours, and I think I'll wait to lower the front or the back. It's warming up now, and think I'm just gonna ride!

 

[fredintoon]

OK, but are you talking about the stock front fork brace, or something aftermarket? I rode last week with the front fender removed, and the factory brace seemed to give it enough stiffness. - - -

Hi twin,
the XS650 stock fork brace is an integral part of the front fender so if the fender is removed, so is the brace.
So WTF does your alleged factory brace look like?
As already posted www.tkat.com is a good aftermarket brace, I have installed 4 of them on various XS models and they do help stiffen those XS flexi-forks.
As does a stock front fender.
I'd go for fender + brace for max stiffening effect and while a fair weather rider can choose to not go riding in the rain sans front fender whatcha gonna do if it starts raining while you are out?
Your options are to hide under a bridge until the rain stops or to ride home while trying to squint through the water spray from your front wheel.

 

[chizler62]

@ OP.......are you looking for a better look sitting at the ice cream shop? or are you looking for improved handling characteristics for your situation?

You can't compare lower measurements from a hard tail and a stock bike.



Those aren't the numbers from a XS650. IF you like here's the math. Make sure you use head tube angle measured properly. 28 deg as measured in motorcycle industry is wrong for the math...it's actually 62 deg etc


Steeper head tube angle the quicker the handling. Remember it also has an effect on wheelbase which effects handling etc....balance wheel.

My thoughts if you're going to lower the front do it with simple spacers under the damper rod. Just remember you'll have to cut the springs or get different springs to compensate for the limited space.

 

[twindallas]

I was referring to the crown/upper fork brace on my bike. Since my front fender was rusted through as mentioned, I might look for a good used one, or look into the aftermarket braces. Thanks!

 

[Newagerocker]

I'ved used Telefix fork braces for years on my XS650 builds. These are not easy to come by and definitely not cheap. They can be obtained directly from http://www.telefix-products.de/ in Germany and http://www.spec2.com/ in USA but be prepared to wait.