DanielBlack
XS650 Junkie
You could wait a month. Instead of freezing the rings, you could park the rest of the bike in the sun.
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My 60th birthday present
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
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- Tags
- 1977 xs 650d chain and sprockets clutch pushrod seal cranckcase seal new front master cylinder pamco e-advance pamco ultimate high output ignition rebuild brake caliper rebuild brakes rebuilt carburetors replace clutch solid state rectifier stainless steel braid front brake line starter gear fix steering head bearings vr-115 regulator
Man that's for darn sure! You think that would work? Just let your bike sit in the sun and get up to about 130 degrees? Haha
pago cruiser
XS650 Addict
"Question all , are these scored calipers garbage or is there such a thing as a bore fix or oversize piston ?"
As they made about half a million of these (from what I've read on the internet...
) there should always be plenty of parts out there I hope), in obviously varying conditions. I just counted about 3 dozen on ebay.
I was talking to my machinist friend the other day about another topic (clutch slaves, go figure), and he indicated that some Ducs have the clutch slave actually cast into the clutch side cover. How cool is that? Unfortunately, when (other) folks don't change their fluids and the water eats up the aluminum, you had to discard the side cover. Big bummer, as Italian stuff is way more dinero than Jap stuff... He came up with a fix to bore out the cast-in sleeve and press a new aluminum sleeve in. So, I don't see why that would not work on our calipers as well. But prolly no need with all the donors around. Besides, may be a good reason to upgrade to a Brembo or sumthing else actually made in this century...
All that said, some HD's of late have had severe brake failures issues. HD blames it on customers not changing the brake fluid every 2 years...
As they made about half a million of these (from what I've read on the internet...
) there should always be plenty of parts out there I hope), in obviously varying conditions. I just counted about 3 dozen on ebay.I was talking to my machinist friend the other day about another topic (clutch slaves, go figure), and he indicated that some Ducs have the clutch slave actually cast into the clutch side cover. How cool is that? Unfortunately, when (other) folks don't change their fluids and the water eats up the aluminum, you had to discard the side cover. Big bummer, as Italian stuff is way more dinero than Jap stuff... He came up with a fix to bore out the cast-in sleeve and press a new aluminum sleeve in. So, I don't see why that would not work on our calipers as well. But prolly no need with all the donors around. Besides, may be a good reason to upgrade to a Brembo or sumthing else actually made in this century...
All that said, some HD's of late have had severe brake failures issues. HD blames it on customers not changing the brake fluid every 2 years...
I don't think anybody makes oversized pistons for inexpensive calipers like ours but the seals are normally flexible enough that as long as the pistons are good - the thing will work OK.
So, you can just sand or polish the caliper bore with some Emory cloth and clean it really well, pop in a new seal and you have an Uncle Robert.
I am pretty sure you can buy new pistons so if they are scored - you'll definitely need them.
So, you can just sand or polish the caliper bore with some Emory cloth and clean it really well, pop in a new seal and you have an Uncle Robert.
I am pretty sure you can buy new pistons so if they are scored - you'll definitely need them.
I was reading Retired Gentlemans post from 2011 , the post was originally about his attempt to eliminate front brake squeal, but turned into his mounting a Brembo Caliper on the front. He posted a link to buy the adapter and surprisingly they are still available, and affordable. Here it is
http://www.pandemoniumc2.com/parts-store/Pandemonium-Brake-Kit-TM-35mm-&-34MM-for-XS650-p46227518
The pistons are still available. I found a really good website that had a how to rebuild the brake caliper on it. The site is Yamahatriples.com
The caliper is the same as the ones on our bikes. The how to page has very good photos and instructions. It helped me. Here's a link
http://www.yamahatriples.com/index.php/how_tos/brake-caliper-rebuild/
I have to say, after rebuilding my caliper, scuffing my original disc, replacing my pads with new sintered ones, and flushing the system. My brakes have been transformed. I can bring it down hard now with just one finger. I may still rebuild my M/C and add a steel braid brake line. But I'm very happy with my stopping power.
On a side note. My front brake is starting to squeal rather loudly, and I doubt that will get better without doing something.
Thanks for the linky Bob - a very nicely written article indeed.
Pete
Pete
Michaelo
650Mick
Your last sentence says it all, mine was exactly the same, total rebuild of the brake caliper, flush of the fluid, no more squeal. Bloody poor design though, so this link you've posted is really helpful Bob.....
Mine started to squeal shortly after I added aftermarket pads too. Yamaha implemented a couple "fixes" for this on the later models. I had to scrounge some of those "anti-squeal" pad shims (#12 & 13) from a newer used caliper. That fixed it for me .....
Yup - shims like that are pretty typical of automotive disc calipers as well - and for the same reason. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't.
Mine started to squeal shortly after I added aftermarket pads too. Yamaha implemented a couple "fixes" for this on the later models. I had to scrounge some of those "anti-squeal" pad shims (#12 & 13) from a newer used caliper. That fixed it for me .....
I see on the diagram that those parts are considered obsolete. Are they available through any aftermarket sources?
I don't know if the sudden squeal is caused by the change to a modern sintered pad or what. Even if that is the case, the increase in stopping power is worth the trade off.
You could try just sticking the part number into your search engine. I scored an NOS long clutch pushrod that way for about $7 USD.
Pete
Pete
XS650D
XS650 Junkie
Hang in there Mailman,Ive got 3 or 4 years into my 77 and I still have more to go BUT the thrill u get every time
you fix,tweek and adjust something new then go for a ride is priceless! I just installed a Pamco with the same
Coil u have in the same location but unfortunately had to lightly dent the inside of the tank to get it installed,I used some grease
to keep the paint from being removed and it worked great,My Tank was from MikesXS and may be slightly tighter fit.
Theres always a lil custom fabrication to keep things interesting. I'm going to spring for the Electronic Advance next year and
finish updating the electrical. Let us know how that goes and a few pics on install when u get there.Goodluck
you fix,tweek and adjust something new then go for a ride is priceless! I just installed a Pamco with the same
Coil u have in the same location but unfortunately had to lightly dent the inside of the tank to get it installed,I used some grease
to keep the paint from being removed and it worked great,My Tank was from MikesXS and may be slightly tighter fit.
Theres always a lil custom fabrication to keep things interesting. I'm going to spring for the Electronic Advance next year and
finish updating the electrical. Let us know how that goes and a few pics on install when u get there.Goodluck
I DONT WANT A PICKLE!
Man! Ever since I got it running I can't stop riding it long enough to work on it! Haha
However, I've had a $100 widget just laying on my work bench for about a month now and I think it's high time I installed it.
My Pamco E- Advancer. I bought the Pamco Ultimate electronic ignition a while back but was too cheap to buy the Advancer unit. Which I ultimately ( of course) wound up getting later. Why do something once and be done with it when you can install everything , only to have to rip things apart a month later and redo it? That's more my style!
So, first off I thought I would tackle the easy part and find a place to mount the unit. I thought I had that all figured out before I ever bought it. The Pamco website says the best place to install it was under the left side cover , on top of the air box. I even found a handy photo of that arrangement by RetiredGentleman from about three years ago.
So that's exactly what I did.
Beautiful! I love it! Then I tried a test fit of my side cover and NO JOY! The unit was thick enough that the side cover would not come down all the way on its rubber mounts and the side cover was resting on top of the unit. No amount of messing with it would make it work in that location.
So then I started looking for a suitable location. Not as easy as it sounds . There is very little available real estate on a bike as spare as the Yamaha.
I looked under the seat and decided to remove the reserve lighting device.
That creates a nice little space for the Pamco unit.
First I removed the lighting unit and then I had to create a jumper for the wiring harness plug so that my headlight would still work.
( Thank You to Retired Gentleman for the timely info on how to do that). The jumper wire goes from the Blue wire w/ black stripe to the Blue wire w/ Yellow stripe. (At least on my '77 bike)
Then it was a matter of hooking up the wiring. Since I already had a Pamco ign it was a matter of cutting the existing wiring and inserting the E-Advancer into it. I used this wiring diagram as a guide.
I soldered all connections and sealed them up with heat shrink tubing.
Then I removed my mechanical advance. With everything out this is what you have left . The Advance rod and two locating pins. You will place the Pamco machined aluminum hub over both of these.
Now this is where I ran into a bit of a snag. Those locating pins have to fit inside those machined notches. However, both pins were too tall to fit. If you look at the small shaft opening there's lots of room to file the notch a little taller. But not so on the outer notch.
My first thought was to simply file down the pin until it clears, but wow is that pin hard! My file just skipped over it without making a mark.
So I'm looking around at what I've got lying around, and guess what? A Dremel bit shaft is the same size! So I cut a little shorter peice and used that. Softer steel to be sure. I hope that will not be a problem. In the following photo the top peice is the factory pin, the middle is the one I made and the bottom is what I cut it from.
Here it is all buttoned up and installed.
From here I started it up and set the timing. All systems go. Took it for a little test ride. Acceleration feels a little more eager. However the idle seems oddly a little rougher. I think that can be smoothed out with some fine tuning in the carbs. I have yet to synchronize them.
But that is enough for one day. Too much problem solving. I just wanna ride my motor sickle!
Man! Ever since I got it running I can't stop riding it long enough to work on it! Haha
However, I've had a $100 widget just laying on my work bench for about a month now and I think it's high time I installed it.
My Pamco E- Advancer. I bought the Pamco Ultimate electronic ignition a while back but was too cheap to buy the Advancer unit. Which I ultimately ( of course) wound up getting later. Why do something once and be done with it when you can install everything , only to have to rip things apart a month later and redo it? That's more my style!
So, first off I thought I would tackle the easy part and find a place to mount the unit. I thought I had that all figured out before I ever bought it. The Pamco website says the best place to install it was under the left side cover , on top of the air box. I even found a handy photo of that arrangement by RetiredGentleman from about three years ago.
So that's exactly what I did.
Beautiful! I love it! Then I tried a test fit of my side cover and NO JOY! The unit was thick enough that the side cover would not come down all the way on its rubber mounts and the side cover was resting on top of the unit. No amount of messing with it would make it work in that location.
So then I started looking for a suitable location. Not as easy as it sounds . There is very little available real estate on a bike as spare as the Yamaha.
I looked under the seat and decided to remove the reserve lighting device.
First I removed the lighting unit and then I had to create a jumper for the wiring harness plug so that my headlight would still work.
( Thank You to Retired Gentleman for the timely info on how to do that). The jumper wire goes from the Blue wire w/ black stripe to the Blue wire w/ Yellow stripe. (At least on my '77 bike)
Then it was a matter of hooking up the wiring. Since I already had a Pamco ign it was a matter of cutting the existing wiring and inserting the E-Advancer into it. I used this wiring diagram as a guide.
I soldered all connections and sealed them up with heat shrink tubing.
Then I removed my mechanical advance. With everything out this is what you have left . The Advance rod and two locating pins. You will place the Pamco machined aluminum hub over both of these.
Now this is where I ran into a bit of a snag. Those locating pins have to fit inside those machined notches. However, both pins were too tall to fit. If you look at the small shaft opening there's lots of room to file the notch a little taller. But not so on the outer notch.
My first thought was to simply file down the pin until it clears, but wow is that pin hard! My file just skipped over it without making a mark.
So I'm looking around at what I've got lying around, and guess what? A Dremel bit shaft is the same size! So I cut a little shorter peice and used that. Softer steel to be sure. I hope that will not be a problem. In the following photo the top peice is the factory pin, the middle is the one I made and the bottom is what I cut it from.
Here it is all buttoned up and installed.
From here I started it up and set the timing. All systems go. Took it for a little test ride. Acceleration feels a little more eager. However the idle seems oddly a little rougher. I think that can be smoothed out with some fine tuning in the carbs. I have yet to synchronize them.
But that is enough for one day. Too much problem solving. I just wanna ride my motor sickle!
Last edited:
XS650D
XS650 Junkie
Hey Mailman,Thx for the pics and info.Glad your having fun. Its all about the ride in the end!
Do u have a few pics on the wire hookup on either side of the New advance unit.Was curious
as to how u spliced in or hooked up the wires to your existing set-up, when u get a chance. Thx
Do u have a few pics on the wire hookup on either side of the New advance unit.Was curious
as to how u spliced in or hooked up the wires to your existing set-up, when u get a chance. Thx
TimeMachine
SeventyEighte
Very Nice ! WTG 
geedubya it is a two pin quick disconnect. You use it to plug in a trickle charger, a usb charger, voltmeter, etc.
On the positive battery post you can see where one leg of the disconnect is attached. The neg. side not so much.
On the positive battery post you can see where one leg of the disconnect is attached. The neg. side not so much.
If you look at the wiring diagram, it's just like that. My pre existing Pamco had a wire bundle going from the sensor to the coils. I just cut that in the middle and spliced the Advancer to be right in the middle of that wire bundle.
Green to green
Black to black
Red to red.
You have to do those splices twice! Once on each set of wires coming out of the advance unit.
The Advance unit comes with fairly long wires , so you can mount it away from the motor and ignition coil.
XS650D
XS650 Junkie
OK Thx. Just wondering when u pulled your original advance unit off. Are u hanging on to the original parts.
Im looking for a set of Original Advance springs to purchase until I can afford the New Advance next year.
Let me know if interested,Thx
Im looking for a set of Original Advance springs to purchase until I can afford the New Advance next year.
Let me know if interested,Thx
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