Not getting spark, cant figure out why

[Port]

The bike is 1981 xs650 heritage special. I've got no sparks but the rest of the electrical system works. I installed new wiring harness because I didn't trust the old one, it wasn't in the best of shape. since then, I've been working through bpeckm's TCI ignition troubleshooting post but, now i'm stuck. There was a voltage drop at the red/white wire on the coil of about 1.2 v so I tested to see if there was a drop at the ignition switch plug, which there was. I cleaned the connections of the plug and the switch, they weren't that bad to begin with, but there was no change. These are the voltages from the ignition switch plug after cleaning.

Key off:
red - 12.53 v

Key on:
red - 11.44
brown - 11.29
blue - 11.28

What next? and after that? and after that?

Also, the casing of the coil is cracked in a few spots. I know this isn't good but i tested the windings and they are good. Plus, i'm a broke college student... Is this a bigger problem than i think it is?

Lastly, I've been considering closing off the side stand safety switch but, I can't figure out which wire it is. I can't, for the life of me, fine the wire leaving the side stand area, and can't find anything on line of one my wiring diagram that tells me where to find it or what color the wire is at the TCI plug.

bpeckm's post:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24161

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I have an old coil with a crack in the casing, tests good, and produces sparks, but only on odd-numbered Tuesdays. It was replaced...

 

[XSLeo]

The 80 and 81 TCI boxes have 6 wires, the 82 up have 7 wires, this 7th wire is a second/black white wire. This second black/white wire goes to the side stand relay. Just unplug the side stand relay.
The side stand relay I think is on the right side. It has 4 wires, a blue/yellow, black, black/white and red/white.
This relay gets power on the R/W wire. With the side stand down, bike not in neutral, the relay gets energized and connects the B/W to the B wire, this grounds the B/W wire, stopping the TCI box from firing the coil.
This relay is also hooked to the clutch lever and neutral light. You can start the bike with it in neutral but if you pull in the clutch and put it in gear with the side stand down the bike quits. This prevents you from riding with the side stand down.
As mentioned find the relay and remove it. Easiest way to fix.
Leo

 

[XSLeo]

Ok, with the bike in all the right conditions to start, Key on, in neutral, you should get battery voltage at the red/white wire at the coil AND the TCI box.
Power goes to the coil on the R/W wire, from the coil to the TCI box on the orange wire. As the engine turns the magnet in the rotor passes the pick ups on the stator. This creates a signal the TCI box uses to know the engine position. It use this signal to know when to fire the plugs.
When the TCI gets the right signal it turns the current flow through the coil on. It does this by grounding the orange wire. This creates a very strong magnetic field in the coil.
When it gets another signal it ungrounds the orange wire this stop the current flow in the coil. This lets the magnetic field in the coil collapse, creating a very high voltage in the coil and this voltage fires the plug.
The TCI box needs battery voltage for it's internal electronics. The coil so it has the current to fire.
Leo

 

[retiredgentleman]

The bike is 1981 xs650 heritage special. I've got no sparks but the rest of the electrical system works. I installed new wiring harness because I didn't trust the old one, it wasn't in the best of shape. since then, I've been working through bpeckm's TCI ignition troubleshooting post but, now i'm stuck. There was a voltage drop at the red/white wire on the coil of about 1.2 v so I tested to see if there was a drop at the ignition switch plug, which there was. I cleaned the connections of the plug and the switch, they weren't that bad to begin with, but there was no change. These are the voltages from the ignition switch plug after cleaning.

Key off:
red - 12.53 v

Key on:
red - 11.44
brown - 11.29
blue - 11.28

What next? and after that? and after that?

Also, the casing of the coil is cracked in a few spots. I know this isn't good but i tested the windings and they are good. Plus, i'm a broke college student... Is this a bigger problem than i think it is?

Lastly, I've been considering closing off the side stand safety switch but, I can't figure out which wire it is. I can't, for the life of me, fine the wire leaving the side stand area, and can't find anything on line of one my wiring diagram that tells me where to find it or what color the wire is at the TCI plug.

bpeckm's post:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24161

If your bike is a 1981, it does not have Side Stand Relay. The SSR was only used on 82 and 83 years.

The 81 year has the Starter Lockout Relay (Starter Cutoff Relay) .The relay is conditioned from the neutral switch and the clutch switch, and it controls the starter motor.

As mentioned, a cracked coil, is not good and should be replaced.

 

[Port]

Thanks everybody, i don't have any questions at the moment but i'll get back to y'all.

 

[Port]

So i was cleaning my right handlebar control, with start button and kill switch (ya'll know). When I went to plug it back in I noticed something i probably should have noticed earlier.

The wiring harness that i got from mike's has 3 wires in a 4 for slot coupler connected to 4 wire's in the other half of the cooler that are all different colors.


Harness:___Right Handlebar Control:
| R/W ___ | | B L/W |
| L/W R/W | | Br R/W |


None of the wiring diagrams in my manual show a handlebar switch with that wiring, the one for my bike, 1981 heritage special has:

Harness:___Right Handlebar Control:
| R/W ___ | | R/W R/W|
| L/W R/W | | ___ R/W|


How should i hook this up? Any explanation to why they don't match up while everything else did.

 

[retiredgentleman]

So i was cleaning my right handlebar control, with start button and kill switch (ya'll know). When I went to plug it back in I noticed something i probably should have noticed earlier.

The wiring harness that i got from mike's has 3 wires in a 4 for slot coupler connected to 4 wire's in the other half of the cooler that are all different colors.


Harness:___Right Handlebar Control:
| R/W ___ | | B L/W |
| L/W R/W | | Br R/W |


None of the wiring diagrams in my manual show a handlebar switch with that wiring, the one for my bike, 1981 heritage special has:

Harness:___Right Handlebar Control:
| R/W ___ | | R/W R/W|
| L/W R/W | | ___ R/W|


How should i hook this up? Any explanation to why they don't match up while everything else did.

Sometimes the wiring colours in the harness don't match up with the wiring colours in the handlebar control units.

You will just have to use your ohmmeter to confirm that you have the right connections made.

Make sure that the blue wire goes to ground at the starter relay when you push the "Start PB".

Use you meter to confirm that one red/white goes to the Ignition Fuse, and the other red/white goes to the Ignition coil terminal.

Some years had 4 wires and some just had 3 wires. The forth wire was a ground wire (black). Some years brought a black wire into the left side controls only, while other years appear to have brought a ground wire into the right side as well.

You only need 3 wires as long as the handlebars are grounded.

 

[XSLeo]

There have been several reports on how Mike's harness's have mistakes. Several have reported that the wire colors are right, just put in the wrong places on the plug to match the item plugging in.
On your switches you have two that hook to the engine stop switch, most often red/white on the harness side and switch side, some times one wire is brown.
A third wire is blue/white, this is the starter button wire. The button grounds this wire.
Diagrams often show a black wire to ground. Seldom is this the way it is on the bike.
The starter button grounds to the bars, On the early bikes they grounded the bars with a wire from the bar risers to an upper tree clamp bolt. This grounds the bars through the head bearings to the frame then to the battery.
On the later bikes the bars are grounded by a wire from the left side switch housing, down into the headlight bucket where it plugs into a harness ground.
Most of the switches I have seen only have the three wires, perhaps yours came off some other bike. Many parts get swapped around in 30+ years.
Leo

 

[Port]

My harness had the problem you described with wires being in the wrong positions on 2 or 3 of the connectors but i fixed those.

Does it matter which of the 2 R/W wires on the harness that I connect the brown or R/W wires from the switch to? if so, which do I connect to which? I cant find anything that shows a switch with the brown and the R/W wires for the kill switch, and i'm not even sure how to tell the two R/W's from the harness apart.

The starter works fine, I'm just not getting sparks.

 

[retiredgentleman]

My harness had the problem you described with wires being in the wrong positions on 2 or 3 of the connectors but i fixed those.

Does it matter which of the 2 R/W wires on the harness that I connect the brown or R/W wires from the switch to? if so, which do I connect to which? I cant find anything that shows a switch with the brown and the R/W wires for the kill switch, and i'm not even sure how to tell the two R/W's from the harness apart.

The starter works fine, I'm just not getting sparks.

It does not matter which way you connect the 2 red/whites.

Have you confirmed that you are getting battery+ voltage to the coil and to the TCI box?

You could measure the ohms of the pick-up coils. 2 coils, each should be around 700 ohms.

The TCI units are getting old these days. Actually quite amazing they have lasted this long. All it takes is a bad solder connection on the PC board, and no spark can happen. The only real way to confirm a bad TCI is to substitute with a known working TCI.

 

[5twins]

I don't think it matters. The kill switch simply "breaks" the connection between the R/W and Brown wire. Usually, the brown is power from the ignition switch in and the R/W is power out to the coil. Did you test the R/W at the coil to see if power is getting there? If it isn't, start back tracking. Test for power coming out of the control assembly (through the kill switch) and for power going in (from the key).

 

[XSLeo]

In the Clymer book's diagrams the 75 to early 78 used an engine stop switch with a brown wire. Other years it had red/white wires. As far as which go where 5twins has that covered. It just an on/off switch, it doesn't mater which way through the switch current flows.
On the harness side one will have voltage with the key on, the other won't. The one with power is coming from the fuse, the other goes to the coil/TCI box. It also goes to the safety relay.
Leo

 

[dbdesigns]

not to hijack the thread but I have a similar problem with my 1980. it was sitting in a garage for a while before I got it.Yesterday put in new gas, checked plugs ,wires and fuses ...all good. Started right up ran alittle rough at first but cleared up...drove up and down my street half a dozen times and it seemed good.
Today I was gonna do the same thing but I got a little away from my garage and it started to sputter like it wasnt getting gas. after checking it out I'm not getting any spark... this bike has no points..correct?? I think it has automatic timing...is there a way to make sure that it's clean and has no rust on it?
Thanks

 

[retiredgentleman]

not to hijack the thread but I have a similar problem with my 1980. it was sitting in a garage for a while before I got it.Yesterday put in new gas, checked plugs ,wires and fuses ...all good. Started right up ran alittle rough at first but cleared up...drove up and down my street half a dozen times and it seemed good.
Today I was gonna do the same thing but I got a little away from my garage and it started to sputter like it wasnt getting gas. after checking it out I'm not getting any spark... this bike has no points..correct?? I think it has automatic timing...is there a way to make sure that it's clean and has no rust on it?
Thanks

Which fuse panel /fuses do you have?

 

[dbdesigns]

they are under the seat

 

[retiredgentleman]

Someone has replaced the stock fuse panel, and that's a good thing to do. The stock fuse panel caused many electrical problems.

You need to check the main fuse, ignition switch, ignition fuse and kill switch. Any one of these and the associated wiring can be corroded/oxidized, causing high resistance and resulting low voltage to the ignition.

The TCI black box (electronic ignition) is old and may be failing. Check for battery+ voltage at the red/white wire connections at both the coil and the TCI black box.

You need to use a VOM to measure for correct voltage.

Use the Google custom search, upper left corner. Many, many threads on "no spark".

 

[dbdesigns]

Someone has replaced the stock fuse panel, and that's a good thing to do. The stock fuse panel caused many electrical problems.

You need to check the main fuse, ignition switch, ignition fuse and kill switch. Any one of these and the associated wiring can be corroded/oxidized, causing high resistance and resulting low voltage to the ignition.

The TCI black box (electronic ignition) is old and may be failing. Check for battery+ voltage at the red/white wire connections at both the coil and the TCI black box.

You need to use a VOM to measure for correct voltage.

Use the Google custom search, upper left corner. Many, many threads on "no spark".

thanks I'll try that

 

[XSLeo]

From 80 up they used a TCI or Transistor Controlled Ignition. This is a solid state ignition that has no moving parts, nothing to rust.
The wiring connectors and switches can corrode.
On the TCI box there are many electronic parts that are coming up on what is called "end of life", electronic parts don't last forever. When they get to this "end of life" they fail. Sometimes they can be replaced if you know what the part is.
Another thing is voltage, Low voltage in particular, the TCI can be very voltage sensitive. Is your charging system and battery in good working order?
At Idle the voltage may read around 12.5 volts or so. When you slowly rev the engine the voltage should increase so that around 2000 rpms it reads around 14.5 volts. And at higher revs like 5000 it should never read over this 14.5 volts.
Leo