Oil in cylinders

What the fuck do you think i'm talking about...................we were told the nuts were found in the head......5 off them...........1 is very thin and worn...........500 miles with them in there will most likely have caused a lot of debris and this............... could have ...........may have...............in all possibility has..........not only caused damage to the stem seals..............but also................gone past the valves and into the bore...................Debris NOT the NUTs
 
Do you always talk like this Skull ? or am I just the lucky recipient all the time ? screw you and the horse you rode in on !
oh..... I forgot... it's Friday and you do this on fridays ! .....
have a good one anyway !
.....
Bob........
 
+1 with hyde................With the damage those nuts have caused the only way any the shit would get into the cylinders is through the valves. there could be damage to the valve face's.

well, it's not like he found the nuts in the bottom end, he found them all in the head so only the head is suspect ... I would think !
he could have bent valves (unlikely but possible) and chewed up valve guide seals which is fairly likely sense that is where he found the nuts
.....However that one nut is dinged up fairly bad it could have shed some metal that got free.....
all in all a recipe for bad things to happen if you don't catch it now ! ...
....clean the sump and oil filter while your at it to see if there are any pieces in there !!!!!!
.....
Bob........
 
is that supposed to Justify your abuse ?
I think we will all see that there is very little if not NO damage to the engine but a few scratches, Obviously I could be wrong !
but I don't think it warrants a complete teardown by any means.... you might but I don't think so.
so lets wait and see what he discovers !
....
Bob.......
 
Skull, you and I both know that it would be absolutely impossible for abrasives capable of trashing new cylinders to migrate to the low end and start chewing up rod and main bearings, don't we? So let's defer to higher knowledge. Yessir, the thing to do is to just slap that motor together, as per previous advice.
 
I must agree with 650Skull in that it is stated that the nuts were found in the head, or more correctly, in his head.

"So I stumble outside and take another look at my head and look what I find..."

That would certainly cause a few headaches and broken teeth but I suspect the use of the word head actually referred to the rocker cover/valve spring/cam area of the head.

In Entry 94 2M points out a possible explanation for all the micro-scratches - vapor honing grit contaminating the engine. This is very interesting and could be the answer to all the issues in this thread. I know the grit could be removed by washing, but washing what? Since the grit would be in the oil it will be dispersed throughout the engine e.g. crank and bearings/clutch and plates/gearbox and bearings/oil pump and oil feed lines, in fact every internal surface. This sort of cleaning job is a major task. Perhaps the grit used was a soft material and hence not an issue??? Would be nice to hear it was powdered walnut shell. I do not think grit removal is simply a matter of an oil change.

It may be possible first to confirm the presence of grit and it should have settled to the bottom by now. If a few small samples from the bottom of the right side case, around the bottom filter screen and some wiped off the crank/cam chain where placed on flat glass then you should hear/feel them if you rub a drinking glass over the sample.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.......

Edit: I assume the grit would be in the oil because the scratching is on the piston shirt.
 
that is a logical assumption Paul, I suspect that as well for the scuffing...
I think if it were me I would pull the engine and take it down to a $1.00 car wash and use the steam cleaner to blast that engine real clean
, of course the clutch side plate should come off to do that and the bottom sump.... and it still wouldn't get it all... but at least Most of it would be gone... then rapid oil changes after that .... I doubt the owner is going to go for a complete teardown and take everything apart that can come apart on that motor..... if so, great as that is probably the best long range option..... but in the real world I doubt that will happen.
..... it would be easier and probably more productive to just buy another motor than do that and clean each part in a parts cleaning vat.
....Or renting a steam cleaner is also a option..... probably better because the pressure is usually a bit higher than those car washer things
.... where there's a will, there is a way..... it can be saved !
Bob.........
 
End of the day Stoop, it's your bike and you turn the wrenches. Everyone is presenting their approach - remember - these gents are speaking from years of experience and tear downs. Your call on how far to go with this.

If it were me, motor's out of frame already > paranoia card gets played from valves to sump as definitive root cause on the jugs remains a mystery.

What's up with the "steam cleaner" recommendation? Not picking on you Bob, I've seen that a few times in various places (not just here). Logic in my head states no way in hell am I touching the innards of a bottom end with water unless we're talking case split already. I'd expect that with enough pressure and residual pooling it begs for rust to immediately form on anything that lost oil film (main bearing races come to mind). Getting every droplet out after getting home would be a race and nearly impossible without splitting anyways. Should someone go the route of bottom end cleaning, kerosene flushing would be the route in my books - but again, that's just me lol.
 
Hyde, it's not just you, you have plenty of company. Stoop, I'm not telling you what to do; as Hyde wrote, it's your motor. But if it were mine, I wouldn't take chances on paying good time and money for a fresh top end only to find that the bottom end and/or tranny was eaten up by grit, or that blocked oil passages would lead to failure. Here's what I'd do.

As anyone who's taken one of these motors down to the cases already knows, once the top end is off it's a quick and easy matter to remove the shift shaft, remove crankcase fasteners, turn the motor upside down on the bench with the top end studs hanging off the edge and supported on block from the floor, and remove the lower case half. After that the transmission shafts and crank assembly simply lift out. If you don't know what to look for in the way of bearing damage, pay a pro to inspect. +1 on flushing of all parts and both case sections, preferably in a proper parts cleaner. High pressure water or steam wouldn't hurt the stripped cases, just be sure to immediately oil the steel bearing journals and blow out all water with solvent followed by compressed air. Otherwise blow aerosol solvent (brake cleaner works fine) through all oil passages and follow up with high pressure compressed air. That's not the best way to go, but 3 or 4 cycles of this treatment will get out most of the debris.

You might think about ordering Hans Pahl's book on the Yamaha XS650 engine from Amazon. It will guide you through breakdown and assembly step by step, and will pay for itself many times over in bullets dodged.

Good luck to you.

.
 
Your absolutely right Hyde !
However steam cleaning it will get rid of 99% of that grit from the get go, and if you have stuff in the engine you have to get it out.... THEN assemble it and put oil in it.... sprey it with something like WD40 that displaces moisture or Kerosene.... hell dry it with a hair dryer if your worried ! then hit it with WD-40, or fill it with oil and spin it really good !
.....Yes I have cleaned engines that way..... it works and I've had no problems, because I had the intelligence to get everything lubed after steam cleaning it ! you don't steam clean it then wait a week and then put oil in it !
....
Bob.....
 
Guessing here, the sump cover is still on the bottom end? Clean the oil drain plug areas well, then remove and drain the oil into a CLEAN white pan, pull the sump and side oil covers and filters and show us pics of them please. Wipe a finger inside the sump cover, then rub between your fingers, how does it feel? I suspect you will want to start looking for a different motor. PS I'm thinking that's not a "micrometer" from harbor freight, it's a digital caliper. Like others have said this type of measuring is a learned art, not an "anymancan" task. You would need an outside mike and a quality cylinder bore gauge (cross checked) to measure cylinders and pistons to reasonable precision, especially the cylinder.
Guys in dark garages, drinking beer, have rebuilt motors but success is a crap shoot.

PS next time just loop a wire around the cam chain and top frame tube. it's not a big deal to fish it back out of the bottom end anyways, a bent coat hanger gets it every time. Was the sheet metal oil baffle still in the head?
OilReturn.jpg
 
Got pretty much the same thing going right now. 277, 750 kit from mikes, and a shit ton of smoke blowing from both pipes. Already changed the valve seals with the motor in the frame, thanks to Grepper"s post, and retorqued the head. Curious to see what you come up with Stoop, before I yank my motor and pull the head and jugs.
 
Got pretty much the same thing going right now. 277, 750 kit from mikes, and a shit ton of smoke blowing from both pipes. Already changed the valve seals with the motor in the frame, thanks to Grepper"s post, and retorqued the head. Curious to see what you come up with Stoop, before I yank my motor and pull the head and jugs.
My cylinders were trashed. Had some pretty nasty gouges from where, I'm assuming, I didn't get all the blasting media rinsed out. So I grabbed a spare set of cylinders and pistons and I'm going to put those on when I get time and money to order some rings and get them cleaned up a little.
 
Back
Top