Gary, on that guide from back in 2013 that you never used, were the bolt holes drilled/tapped at such a bad angle like on these current offerings? It doesn't make sense to me to use a round casting and then drill/tap it at that bad angle. The casting should have been a block like the early guide pics 2M showed us. Then you could drill and tap it at any angle you liked without running the risk of not enough material or "meat" to support the tapped hole.
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On the road again at 40.............the bike that is
FWIK, 650Direct has always been Mike L's sons business, separate to MikesXS. CB Honda gear started showing up not long after 650Direct opened and i think Mike L's son expanded in that direction.
Mike L has been the distributor for MikesXS and 650Direct, When Mike L sold the business 650Direct couldn't selll outside of Canada and FWIH, Heiden Tuning was getting their supplies from MikesXS but there was some dispute over supply issues so Heiden went direct to the supplier. Who that was i couldn't say, Mike L or the Manufacturer.
When Geof'sXS opened in Aus there was some dispute from MikesXS about selling in his area. They got around that due to Geof'sXS getting his supplies direct from Mike L. From what i heard mike is not well and there could be some problems due to the fact the manufacturing contacts are Mike L's and if his son does,'t want to take over the retail.....................?????
Mike L has been the distributor for MikesXS and 650Direct, When Mike L sold the business 650Direct couldn't selll outside of Canada and FWIH, Heiden Tuning was getting their supplies from MikesXS but there was some dispute over supply issues so Heiden went direct to the supplier. Who that was i couldn't say, Mike L or the Manufacturer.
When Geof'sXS opened in Aus there was some dispute from MikesXS about selling in his area. They got around that due to Geof'sXS getting his supplies direct from Mike L. From what i heard mike is not well and there could be some problems due to the fact the manufacturing contacts are Mike L's and if his son does,'t want to take over the retail.....................?????
I didn't make it plain Robinc, what you are doing here is GREAT! Just bitching about problems is like peeing in a dark pair of pants, it gives you a warm feeling but no one notices. Actually doing something to try to improve the situation is much harder and is seldom rewarded....
As usual good info Skull! it really helps to understand the all the players and relationships. Yes all of these businesses have been around a long time, Mike Morris has been hinting he wants out for quite a while.
5T I'll see if I can find it and take a look at the bolt angles. Do these newer ones still have that same part number on the casting?
As usual good info Skull! it really helps to understand the all the players and relationships. Yes all of these businesses have been around a long time, Mike Morris has been hinting he wants out for quite a while.
5T I'll see if I can find it and take a look at the bolt angles. Do these newer ones still have that same part number on the casting?
Thank you gggGary.
Oh well, email was sent as I presented here. Surely anyone at their end with any sense can see that there are problems We'll see what happens now.
These folks don't want to intentionally sell poor quality products, but if they don't get feedback how will they ever know?
Been a lot of bitchin' here over the years about MikesXS lousy parts. Pete showed change can happen when he approached them about the starter gear clip. Wonder if anyone else has ever bothered to try a diplomatic approach to have another problem corrected?
Oh well, email was sent as I presented here. Surely anyone at their end with any sense can see that there are problems We'll see what happens now.
These folks don't want to intentionally sell poor quality products, but if they don't get feedback how will they ever know?
Been a lot of bitchin' here over the years about MikesXS lousy parts. Pete showed change can happen when he approached them about the starter gear clip. Wonder if anyone else has ever bothered to try a diplomatic approach to have another problem corrected?
I have given Mikes feedback on the rapid deterioration of their nylon fuel products when exposed to ethanol, based on evidence at this website by others; I don't use ethanol fuel, but might be forced to use it, someday.
Sorry gggGary, just caught your question. Here's a pic with part number from my initial post on this issue.
Uh . . . . yeah. At one time they sold a passable set of inside/internal snap ring pliers. Great for removing the snap ring inside the master cylinder. Knowing this and not looking at the current (at the time) offering I ordered a pair to get me to that magic "free shipping" number, What I received were outside/external snap ring pliers. Totally useless for the purpose they were purchased for. After several e-mails back and forth, the conclusion, they would refund my money if I shipped it back on my dime and I didn't know how to use their tool correctly.
That is the last time I have purchased from them and when it gets to the point that they are the only parts source I'll sell everything XS related.
I know that at least one member thinks kindly of them. Marty needs to remember EVERY con and graft needs seed money to grease the wheels.
Ya that's too bad WER. I have read other similar stories.
I can only speak to my personal experience over the last 2 years. Anytime I have had an issue with XS650Direct here in Canada they have bent over backwards to rectify the problem at their expense.
I can only speak to my personal experience over the last 2 years. Anytime I have had an issue with XS650Direct here in Canada they have bent over backwards to rectify the problem at their expense.
Pics of a 2013ish MikesXS guide and a used OEM guide out of a 79 motor with 11,000 miles. Motor was pulled because one cylinder had rust from water entry. I would (will?) reuse this stock guide, very little wear, no loose rubber. I had previously retapped the screw holes in the Mikes guide because of rough and incomplete depth threads.
Great update and presentation gggGary. Thank you.
It would appear the angle of the drilled holes on that 2013 guide aren't off as much as the current offering?
Would you use that MikesXS guide?
Well guys, an update. Sorry, at least we took a shot at it.
The lone voice in the woods approach didn't get anywhere. We could mount a group assault but I doubt that would do anything either..
Received this reply today:
Hi Robin,
Thanks for reaching out regarding the front guide stopper.
We have consulted with MikesXS regarding this product and we do recognize the slight difference from OEM to the one that we provide. These differences do not affect the performance or installation of this part whatsoever.
Between the two companies we sell upwards of 600 units a year for the last 10+ years and have not had any cases where the part was not able to be installed correctly due to manufacturing defects.
As I said, we do recognize the differences between OEM and our aftermarket part, but have not seen any performance issues.
If you wish to return the part for a refund and source an OEM one that is no problem. Our mailing address is:
XS650 Direct.............
Thanks & all the best!
XS650
They obviously aren't prepared to go through the effort and expense of retooling, new molds, loss of existing inventory, etc.
Haven't replied yet. Not quite sure what to say. Not at a loss for words, just taking some time before I decide which ones I want to use.
Maybe they haven't had any cases where the part was not able to be installed because they just never heard about them?
This part looks unacceptable to me. Jim seems to concur. Am I wrong?
What do you guys think of this part, and would you use one of these new releases?
When things warm and dry up a little more around here I will uncover my engine and test mount this guide and see how it compares.
Thanks guys.
It would appear the angle of the drilled holes on that 2013 guide aren't off as much as the current offering?
Would you use that MikesXS guide?
Well guys, an update. Sorry, at least we took a shot at it.
The lone voice in the woods approach didn't get anywhere. We could mount a group assault but I doubt that would do anything either..
Received this reply today:
Hi Robin,
Thanks for reaching out regarding the front guide stopper.
We have consulted with MikesXS regarding this product and we do recognize the slight difference from OEM to the one that we provide. These differences do not affect the performance or installation of this part whatsoever.
Between the two companies we sell upwards of 600 units a year for the last 10+ years and have not had any cases where the part was not able to be installed correctly due to manufacturing defects.
As I said, we do recognize the differences between OEM and our aftermarket part, but have not seen any performance issues.
If you wish to return the part for a refund and source an OEM one that is no problem. Our mailing address is:
XS650 Direct.............
Thanks & all the best!
XS650
They obviously aren't prepared to go through the effort and expense of retooling, new molds, loss of existing inventory, etc.
Haven't replied yet. Not quite sure what to say. Not at a loss for words, just taking some time before I decide which ones I want to use.
Maybe they haven't had any cases where the part was not able to be installed because they just never heard about them?
This part looks unacceptable to me. Jim seems to concur. Am I wrong?
What do you guys think of this part, and would you use one of these new releases?
When things warm and dry up a little more around here I will uncover my engine and test mount this guide and see how it compares.
Thanks guys.
Really not much to see in those pics..................... From the guide to the outside of the barrels 12mm, (1/2" for you non metric guys), of bolt is required + the depth of the thread in the guide..................
A lot of hu ha about little maybe. When Mike L used to frequent 650Rider he was giving us good information when stock would be arriving and he explained how he was receiving parts and why the supply would run down at certain times...................One of the comments he made was the US guys would complain about parts and the Aussie and other overseas guys would adapt and use them...............this cannot be said for some of the parts as the odd time they were not adaptable.
A simple solution would be to lightly file the spacer going through the barrels to accommodate the angle of the hole...............Some times complaining inhibits the ability to think out solutions.
A lot of hu ha about little maybe. When Mike L used to frequent 650Rider he was giving us good information when stock would be arriving and he explained how he was receiving parts and why the supply would run down at certain times...................One of the comments he made was the US guys would complain about parts and the Aussie and other overseas guys would adapt and use them...............this cannot be said for some of the parts as the odd time they were not adaptable.
A simple solution would be to lightly file the spacer going through the barrels to accommodate the angle of the hole...............Some times complaining inhibits the ability to think out solutions.
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I fully agree with that Skull.
However, if you're going to go through all the work required to manufacture a part, why not just do it right so it doesn't require any modifications?
Robonic, I was writing Post #811 when you were posting my post was not directed at you or your last post, it was in response to gggGary's............so there is no confusion.
Ok, no worries Skull.
I agree, I think Gary's 2013 part is much closer to the original as far as the angle of the bolt holes goes, and I think it could be used. I'm not so sure about their latest version. I guess that's what you could tell them - the current version is much worse that previous offerings. They may not have gotten complaints before but they may start getting them now, lol. Their current supplier wouldn't have to re-tool as far as replacing molds and stuff, they'd just have to drill the mounting holes differently, closer to (or matching) the angle of the originals.
I have a Mikes guide in my bike and my buddy used them in 2 of his. They all seem fine but these were done 8 to 10 years ago. No doubt we were getting better ones back then. Honestly, we never even thought to check out things like the bolt hole angles, lol. Last year, we had to go back into one of my buddy's motors and the Mikes guide was holding up just fine. There was no perceptible wear on it, or any loose rubber.
Here's a ray of hope possibly .....
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-256122310100-Guide/dp/B00945T3AU
They say it's "temporarily" out of stock. They'll let you order it, then ship it and bill you once it comes in. So, maybe they know something we don't? Like a new production run is in the works? For me, that would be the best solution here. Then Mikes can take their poorly made repops and stick them where the sun don't shine, lol.
I have a Mikes guide in my bike and my buddy used them in 2 of his. They all seem fine but these were done 8 to 10 years ago. No doubt we were getting better ones back then. Honestly, we never even thought to check out things like the bolt hole angles, lol. Last year, we had to go back into one of my buddy's motors and the Mikes guide was holding up just fine. There was no perceptible wear on it, or any loose rubber.
Here's a ray of hope possibly .....
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-256122310100-Guide/dp/B00945T3AU
They say it's "temporarily" out of stock. They'll let you order it, then ship it and bill you once it comes in. So, maybe they know something we don't? Like a new production run is in the works? For me, that would be the best solution here. Then Mikes can take their poorly made repops and stick them where the sun don't shine, lol.
Thanks 5twins. I happened upon the bolt hole angle issue quite by chance. I recalled reading how the bolt hole spacings didn't match in the past so I put some longer bolts in to measure that.
It was then I noticed the angles being different.
It was then I noticed the angles being different.
I just pre-ordered one from Amazon, and like 5T states , when it's available they will notify me. Hopefully I won't be to old to ride by the time they are manufactured and ready to ship.
tim
tim
Would I use the Mikes guide I have?
first; my pace is glacial
I still have that 2013 mike's guide AND a brand new OEM guide purchased about the same time, neither is in an engine as of yet.
I would use a new Mikes guide If I needed to because Yamaha decides to not have anymore made or their price stays at $130? Yes, I would clean up the threads on the new one and if the threads seemed crooked would probably bias the tap towards straightening the thread as i worked. If I thought the bolts kinda loose I'd be tempted to add blue locktite.
Actually i was worried about the softer rubber back then, but so far I haven't heard a single report of a mikes guide failure in use as backed up by 5T's comments.
One more comment; the XS650 engine is from a different era, manufacturing tolerance was much looser then and designs tended to accommodate that. Looking at the guide design and the fact the cam sprocket can be misaligned by large amounts during normal assembly, with little more than eyeball centering being the norm, I think if you can install the guide, tighten the bolts so the guide doesn't move, and the chain "looks about" centered in the guide I wouldn't worry about it.
first; my pace is glacial
I still have that 2013 mike's guide AND a brand new OEM guide purchased about the same time, neither is in an engine as of yet.
I would use a new Mikes guide If I needed to because Yamaha decides to not have anymore made or their price stays at $130? Yes, I would clean up the threads on the new one and if the threads seemed crooked would probably bias the tap towards straightening the thread as i worked. If I thought the bolts kinda loose I'd be tempted to add blue locktite.
Actually i was worried about the softer rubber back then, but so far I haven't heard a single report of a mikes guide failure in use as backed up by 5T's comments.
One more comment; the XS650 engine is from a different era, manufacturing tolerance was much looser then and designs tended to accommodate that. Looking at the guide design and the fact the cam sprocket can be misaligned by large amounts during normal assembly, with little more than eyeball centering being the norm, I think if you can install the guide, tighten the bolts so the guide doesn't move, and the chain "looks about" centered in the guide I wouldn't worry about it.
Totally agree, why not! is there an excuse not to, no. ........................In relation to the guide, we are starting from a different point, (product is already made), and have no control over the existing construction of the guide.........agreed?
Not rehashing here, only how i perceive and would go about making a presentation.
We are starting with a Company that claims, 6,000 guides sold over 10 years and no complaints.
In a complaint......the information has to be 100% relevant to the operation or, non operation of the product.
Show any deviation from the intended operation and any alterations that would be required to make the part operational or,
Show any hazard that may arise from using that product in it's currant form or,
from any alteration made to make the product function as intended.
Concise, to the point......... Any visual references have to back up the relevant points. ........Use a couple of screen shots of a thread and give links to the threads where problems have arisen from guides from Mikesxs.......may have to do some searching as some of this info is buried in threads, (just like this)........ rounded face that sits against the barrel..............not deep enough..........bolt angles not square................threads stripping, (have to be careful here as the standard response is; "you have over tightened them" and it is best if the receiver of a complaint cannot refute anything or make a plausible excuse...... This is their language.
Any information has to get past their stated opinion of their product, we are trying to convince some one to change what they know, or claim to, same difference really.
There is a forum on here for doing this. If a good presentation was done up collaboratively and any relevant information, (thread search's).........( 2m where are you).......... regarding the problems had with the current products on offer.
I wouldn't try to go back to Mikes, why not look to another XS650 Supplier and give them an opportunity to take up a hard to get product.
This site shows they still have 2 OEM guides in stock?
http://store.speedandsportinc.com
Never dealt with them.
http://store.speedandsportinc.com
Never dealt with them.
