PAMCO Ignition System

The quickest answer to that is "there are more years with points than TCI", which it was originally designed for. There are pros and cons to replacing the TCI with it. IMHO, the TCI is a better system, but can be costly to replace if it goes south. Like i said, pros and cons.

ps - my opinions may or may not reflect Pete's.
 
ggg,

1. Well, that same chain also opens and closes the valves, and valve timing is just as important as ignition timing.
2. Yamaha no longer manufactures the TCI, so you would have to get a 30 year old Ebay replacement if yours fails.
3. Because of 2, above, some people are selling their TCI now on Ebay while it is still working and using the money to buy a PAMCO.
 
Pete or anyone can answer this. How many labyrinths do I use for an 81? And will it still be one brass on the pamco side and two on the other side. I also lost the screws and washers that hold the pamco in place. They are the same thread count as the three screws that fasten the housing down, just lookin for length of screw and washer size. THANks
 
Also on my advance unit, the weights do not want to spring back. I filed the in down on the plate, not sure if that would have anything to do with it? I just open the weights with my thumb and they stay open. Any ideas?
 
So, last night i thought i had blown up my coil. No spark on the right hand side, and i still had 25k ohm from cap to cap. Long story short, after having a couple of beers and calmly thinking about it, i took the tank off and made sure the leads were firmly in the towers. Problem fixed.

So, just a life lesson FYI, always go back to basics when debugging an issue.

Also, beer centers the mind. :)
 
sundie,

Beer allows you to transition through the "zone of truth". Your mind is all confused when you are sober. Prejudice, lack of confidence and ennui rule the sober mind.

As you consume beer, one after the other, you pass through the "zone of truth" where all mysteries are solved, all women are hot, and the skies are not cloudy all day.

You do your most imaginative work while in the zone of truth, but it is short lived, because the zone requires a continuous flow of beer to keep the lamps aglow, which soon dim as the flow of beer drowns the flame of truth and beauty and all becomes blurry and uncertain, just as it is when you are sober.

So, be prepared...take notes and have lots of witnesses as you move rapidly through the zone, because it's truth is fleeting, and the fall is steep, and all those hot women will soon cool down, and the empties will rattle around the floor reminding you that the truth is a transient...
 
Must have been a slow day. I set up the test rig to run the "Ultimate" coil (17-6903), an Autolite #63 spark plug and an Iridium spark plug in the test rig, powered by a 6 volt lantern battery. This to simulate a hard start condition with a low battery.

YouTube Video

The plug in the foreground is the Iridium, the plug in the background is an Autolite #63. I dimmed the lights so you can see the spark.

This is to demonstrate that one of the reasons you would buy the "Ultimate" coil is not just because it produces 82,000 Volts, but that it also produces a usable spark with just 6 volts, which means that it will also start easier under adverse conditions.

The occasional "miss" in the video is just the camera. The spark never actually missed.

Keep in mind that the stock TCI and other aftermarket electronic ignitions will not even work with less than 9 volts on the battery.
 
In answer to the question "Which PAMCO kit should I buy?"

All the kits are good!. Turn the key, push the button, the engine starts and you ride for the rest of the day. Like, what more do you need?

It's like the choice of engine in your car. 4, 6 or 8 cylinder. My truck is a 4 cylinder. My wifes car is a 4 cylinder. She used to have a 6 and I used to have an 8, but the 4's will get us to where we need to go.

I ran the 17-6822 coil from the 14-0901 kit last year for a few weeks. Great coil. Runs cool. Long spark duration. Push the button, the engine starts immediately. Idles smooth. Goes fast.

I now have the 14-6903 coil. 80,000 volts to the plugs. Runs cool. Longer spark duration. Even faster starts, if that is possible. I run the Iridium plugs with that coil. Here is a chart showing the improved gas mileage with the 17-6903 coil compared to the 17-6822 coil, and by interpolation, higher horsepower:

iridium.jpg


I don't actually see these benefits, but I know they are there. The basic difference is that a higher output voltage coil allows you to widen the plug gap a bit to expose more of the mixture to the spark, creating a larger kernel of flame that goes on to burn the rest of the mixture in the cylinder. The spark is also hotter, which also contributes to a larger initial kernel of flame. That spark will burn through fouling on the plug. An engine that is running more efficiently will also produce more horse power.

So. It's more of a philosophical question. Do you feel better knowing that your engine is operating closer to its peek performance? Could you use the extra horsepower every once in a while, like when going up hill or operating in a high altitude area?

If so, then the higher output coil would be your choice.

What's the downside? The 17-6810 coil, the "Green Monster" is absolutely unforgiving if you accidentally leave a plug wire disconnected. The coil will fry instantly, and might take the PAMCO with it, but, you just need a little discipline and that won't happen.

The 17-6822 coil will probably let you get away with leaving the plug wire off once or twice, but I wouldn't press my luck, and it's not just the PAMCO that has this problem. Any dual output coil system, including the factory TCI has this potential problem.

So, the choice is yours.
 
Pete, what is the minimum CCA and Amp/h battery you recommend for your kit for kick start only, Headlight (switched), and tail light with points ignition? I'm going to relocated my battery under a bubble seat and want to go small AGM type battery.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
C-Los SD

Well, the PAMCO will work all the way down to 6 Volts, so that is not the determining factor. It's the rate of charge for a small battery may be exceeded if you let the battery get down too low. I recommend no smaller than 7 AmpHours but others have been successful with a 5 AH battery. The trick is to never let the battery voltage go below 10.5 volts in order to minimize the charge current when the engine revs up after you have been stopped at a light for several minutes. I also recommend that you put the battery on a low amp (0.5 A) trickle charger overnight, every night, so it starts out fully charged the next day and will not be damaged by that recharge current when you rev up the engine in the morning.
 
Pete,
Is it safe to say that a Odyssey PC45 battery will work your kit if I decide to keep electric start. The battery is pricey, but it's smaller than stock should hide well under my bubble seat.

PC 545 Specs:

545 cranking amps for 5 seconds
495 cranking amps for 10 seconds
420 cranking amps for 20 seconds
Short circuit current over 1200A
14Ah
18 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load
CCA - 185

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc545series.htm

Also looking at Braille battery which is little smaller and less weight:
813 Pulse Cranking Amps
12 Amp/Hr Reserve

http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/batteries/b129/

Will either one work work with electric start?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
C-Los-SD,

Well, the original battery for the XS650 was a 12 AH battery, so either of those batteries should work, and, again, the PAMCO will work all the way down to 6 volts, so it will not be the determining factor, except that from most reports, mine included, the engine starts faster with a PAMCO, so the battery will not be sucked down by starting.
 
Pete
I have an 81 xs with a TCI ignition, I just did a valve job & replaced the rings, I have issues with backfiring in the carb(left side). I've cleaned the carbs a# of times and I cant seem to get it to last long enough to get into gear, I suspect it might be ignition.
Which model would get me up & going, for the least money at this time?
 
pete... i,m in australia,,, do you make or thinking of making a single fire 360 ignition for standard firing motors USING my new replacement coils from mikes ,, it seems your nearly there and it would really tempt me to get 1 and do any aussies use them regards oldbiker
 
BklynMatt,

Well, if you had the advance parts from an earlier model, you could just use the stock coil and the basic $89 PAMCO. If not, then you will need MIkesxs kit Part #14-0902 for $199 which includes everything you need to convert a TCI to PAMCO.

I just reread your post and realized it was written in August! Sorry I missed it then.
 
OldBiker,

Well, a system to fire each coil would require two triggers, like the system that I did for the Honda CB750 and there fore cost more.

You could try wiring the coils in parallel with a ballast resistor to protect the PAMCO if your coils are 4.5 Ohm coils.
 
pete,,, i have the 2 replacement standard coils from mikes,,, ,, when you say 2 triggers etc,,, what sort of cost are you thinking around,,, a few months ago i got burnt by buying a locally made xs650 electronic ignition ,,,in the designers words were BULLET PROOF ,,I USED IT 4 TIMES not even 100k on my clock ,,, i think i paid about 350 bucks made by the guy from the club in aust... ,,, fortunately i didn,t cut my wires like he suggested .. to trim them .. but if you get the time let me know a cost regards oldbiker
 

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