post carb cleaning, trouble

[emzdogz]

let's see what the compression test says.

BTW, I found an old thread of yours about a 79 standard that at first it seemed doomed to need valves but you cleaned up the seats with a gun cleaning kit and after awhile it ran great. That was very interesting.

Next steps here:
compression test

maybe try smaller pilot jets, (no clue why it would be so rich in pilot circuit that it starts from cold with no choke <<to me that is supicious)

balance carbs with home made manometer

maybe then buy a gun cleaning kit!

And if all else fails, take a deep breath and realize I'm going to have to go where I've never been before, and that's disassembling top end. Got to do some reading and find out if I can take the cylinders off with engine still in bike. Hoping not to have to do this.

anyway thx for taking the time to look at the silly little video

 

[bbillington]

If it comes down to it, consider picking up a known good motor to throw in, then you can take your time with the rebuild, and still enjoy being able to ride.

 

[gggGary]

I fired off a 79 for the first time last night, shows 10,000 miles on the clock but we had to use a gas wrench to cut the chain off it before we could get it in the van and it still wasn't anxious to roll. One side had 150 cold other was about 80. Set the cam chain and valves did the gun cleaning brush thing and got it to 100 direct wired the coils to the battery, squirted some ether, no carbs OR exhaust and it fired right off, then it showed 120PSI so it's headed the right direction. but I am doing the rest of the 'wake up little Susie" drill before I run it again, oil, filters, rebuilt carbs, torque head studs, put an exhaust on it, the usual.
Watch for a new thread on using a borescope for engine inspection....

 

[emzdogz]

the good thing about this project for me is there's no real deadline, I have a nice Sportster I can ride...the only deadline is I'm not getting any younger and/or stronger.

I guess I will finish my frame and running gear mock-up with it running rough if necc. Then the engine has to come out for paint anyway, so at that time I can deal with the top end.

In between, (unless I can get it running better) i can just putt-putt around to make sure my mock-up is how I want it. Peg mounts, etc - anything that requires cutting and welding.

Still hoping to get it running a little better.

As far as getting another known good engine - that's beyond the budget at this point. However, if I totally love this bike, later on down the line I may bite the bullet and buy a real nice pro-built re-phased engine for it.

Have arranged to pick up compression gauge from my Dad this afternoon.

 

[emzdogz]

Do the compression test already, the suspense is killing me!

OK here ya go! I was surprised, left side is up near 150, and the right ("bad" side) is up pretty high too, although lower than left side. Maybe because I did the right side 2nd and battery was already wearing down. Just did this with coil unplugged from power, carbs shimmed open and by pressing starter motor button.

I guess this makes me hopeful.

so left pic is actually right side, and vice versa

 

[ReycleBill]

I fired off a 79 for the first time last night, shows 10,000 miles on the clock but we had to use a gas wrench to cut the chain off it before we could get it in the van and it still wasn't anxious to roll. One side had 150 cold other was about 80. Set the cam chain and valves did the gun cleaning brush thing and got it to 100 direct wired the coils to the battery, squirted some ether, no carbs OR exhaust and it fired right off, then it showed 120PSI so it's headed the right direction. but I am doing the rest of the 'wake up little Susie" drill before I run it again, oil, filters, rebuilt carbs, torque head studs, put an exhaust on it, the usual.
Watch for a new thread on using a borescope for engine inspection....

I had one a while back that I was told had a locked up engine that turned out to be locked because the chain was rusted and a clutch ball was missing. Once I got the chain off I was able to turn the front sprocket and get it out of gear. Just got another locked engine a few days ago that appears to be a transmission problem instead-- just dumped the engine out this morning so I don't yet know for sure. Either way, it has enough parts to finish 2 others.

 

[emzdogz]

Good luck Recycle Bill, one way or the other getting a nice engine (or 2) out of all that.

 

[XSLeo]

On it starting with out the choke, and how you describe the plugs, it is a bit rich. With the plastic floats they should be 22 mm. The 21 mm will be just a bit high, making things a bit rich. Before I swapped jets I might try resetting the floats.
The 150 is very good on the one side, The other at just under 100 is a bit low. Ideally they should be the same, with in 10% is reccomended.
On an engine with unknown history, the compression often comes up after a bit of running. Adding the Sea Foam and Marvels well help unstick the rings and clean the valves and seats. It just takes some running for them to work.
Build the sync tool, only costs a few bucks, sync and tune the carbs, run it, It may improve enough to get a few years of riding done before the top end has to come apart.
Leo

 

[emzdogz]

Hi Leo, thanks for the response - if you take another look at the pics - the "lower" one is actually over 100, too. (a little over 125) So what I see is one just under 150, and one just over 125. Any reason I could be getting a false "high" reading? I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised with these readings.

Went to get tubing today for homemade manometer, and also picked up some PB Blaster.

I'd added Seafom to the gas awhile back, seems like after that it never did stop blowing the white smoke. I doubt there's any Seafoam still in the tank though.

So I removed valve covers on that side that smokes, and sprayed PB Blaster all in there as well as through plug hole, and also I pulled the exhaust on that side and sprayed it through there. Kicked it through a bunch of times to try and spread the PB Blaster through there.

I can't really work on it too much more today as we have rain coming through all day and I have to work in an open carport, so it's very wet out there right now. Wish I had a garage.

Since you mention that the floats may have it running rich, even at 21 mm, maybe I'll go ahead and pull them off again, too, and re-check that.

One more thing I thought of, although I don't see how this could cause a rich condition - when I got my pipes powder coated, it didn't occur to me to grind the powder coat off of the end (mating surface) where they go into the head. Maybe that doesn't matter though. Not sure.

thanks again!

 

[XSLeo]

Sorry about that, didn't blow the pics up, so i misread the readings. Did this time, Looked closer. The right reads about 130, the left 140.
Those readings are fine. About 7% apart. I doubt that's going to give you nuch trouble. After a few miles it probably come up some and even out more.
On your headers where they fit to the heads, If I recal you built them from stock headers, If so and you used the stock mounting flanges the powder coat won't be a problem. On the stock header the flange around the pipe gets pushed against the gasket, the gasket against the head. As you tighten the mount bolts the gasket gets squeezed, this compresses the gasket between the head and flange and expands to fill the gap between the pipe and the head.
Any powder coating in there will just make a tighter seal.
On the float level xjwmx did some experementing and on his bike the 22 worked well setting them to 21 and 23 greatly effected the way the bike ran.
Your running BS34 carbs, with the clear tube method of checking fuel level the level should be within + or - 1 mm of being at the carb body gasket surface. I would try to get it as close to spec as I can.
Leo

 

[oldskoolcarbs]

287444[/ATTACH]"]

back to the carbs, here is a good way to make sure the needles are seating and sealing.. if it will seal off air it will definitely handle fuel until something gets lodged in there,, rick

 

[XSLeo]

A Miti Vac, never thought of that. And I have one.
Leo

 

[emzdogz]

so you're pumping air IN with the mity vac or sucking out?

 

[XSLeo]

The Miti Vac sucks air out.
If you want you can blow on the hose.
Either way if air can't pass it will hold gas.
Leo

 

[oldskoolcarbs]

VACUUM...

 

[5twins]

Oldskool, is that a factory fuel "T" with the rubber coating stripped off or some aftermarket part?

 

[oldskoolcarbs]

aftermarket, customer actually sent it with the carbs not sure where he got it

customer also sent me a set with the tee on this page, pure junk, why didn't they just machine an oring groove, could not get it to work ,pure junk http://www.mikesxs.net/product/48-0884.html

 

[ReycleBill]

aftermarket, customer actually sent it with the carbs not sure where he got it

customer also sent me a set with the tee on this page, pure junk, why didn't they just machine an oring groove, could not get it to work ,pure junk http://www.mikesxs.net/product/48-0884.html

I bought one of those as well. Useless. I tossed it in my scrap brass bucket.

 

[emzdogz]

Pulled the carbs again today. What I found is that one float had re-positioned itself about good 1/8th in lower (as they sit upside down to measure). Not sure what would have caused that kind of settling/re-positioning. I'd even made a tool out of a credit card when I set them, so I know that when I made the adjustment they were either equal or very near equal. These are new plastic floats so I can't imagine a float is leaking and taking on gas.

Tomorrow I'll check the tip of that float needle that "moved" - just in case the tip broke off. That's the only thing I can think of that would make that float suddenly measure nowhere near the 22mm I was shooting for. The other one stayed right about at 22.

The other odd thing is THAT float bowl (the one where the float for some reason no longer measured 22, or even close) was dry, while the other still had some gas in it.

I blew into the hose in cross-piece and neither float budged at all.

I hope to re-visit it tomorrow.

 

[ReycleBill]

Pulled the carbs again today. What I found is that one float had re-positioned itself about good 1/8th in lower (as they sit upside down to measure). Not sure what would have caused that kind of settling/re-positioning. I'd even made a tool out of a credit card when I set them, so I know that when I made the adjustment they were either equal or very near equal. These are new plastic floats so I can't imagine a float is leaking and taking on water.

Tomorrow I'll check the tip of that float needle that "moved" - just in case the tip broke off. That's the only thing I can think of that would make that float suddenly measure nowhere near the 22mm I was shooting for. The other one stayed right about at 22.

The other odd thing is THAT float bowl (the one where the float for some reason no longer measured 22, or even close) was dry, while the other still had some gas in it.

I blew into the hose in cross-piece and neither float budged at all.

I hope to re-visit it tomorrow.

If the float dropped it might be because it has a tiny hole in it. 'Course that depends on what type of float you have. Only the hollow floats can fill up with gasoline.