Quick fork rebuild question 1975 XS650B

[Gordon in nc]

I "think" I read somewhere the torque value ( 5twins?) for the cylinder that holds the leg onto the lower of my 34mm 1975 B forks was 16 ft lbs. In that post I seem to remember 5twins saying he went to 20 ft lbs if he was reusing the copper washer. I can't find the thread again and I can't find the value in my manual. I'm having a heck of a time rebuilding my forks.....but I'm almost there. I've failed twice trying to make a tool to hold the cylinder. I'm on my third attempt and I think I have it but I want to be sure I get the torque right before I get a chance to get back at it tomorrow. (gota pull out the welder and reinforce tool #2.....so it'll now be tool #3)

Any help out there?????

I've had a short list of stuff to do to the bike before it goes to the Dogwood.....and the forks are holding me up right now. Got a 10 item check list and the forks are only #2.....ugh.

Thanks in advance.....after second tool failed I had to walk away and think about it some more before I pull out the hand grenade.

Gordon in NC

 

[angus67]

I dont recall a need for a copper washer on the forks/yokes, but just tightening with a basic box wrench yeilds near #20. Believe it or not, a standard set of box wrenches are designd to feel tight around #20 because of the length of the wrench. Of course you can over torque with a wrench, but #20 is about the torque a standard length wrench will yeild when percieved as tight to the user

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

New tool to add to your collection, Gordon.
Torque limiting box wrench.

 

[Gordon in nc]

TM......you KILL me.

I know I should have calmed down last night BEFORE I posted. Sorry for the confussion.

The part I'm talking about is call the "cylinder" part number 447-23170-52-00 and it's bolt is part number 278-23181-50-00

I got the suckers tight (two of them total) and figure they are probably tight enough......but I'm not going to feel warm and fuzzy until I hear that "click". It's not like that bolt is easy to get to once it's all back together.

Tool #1 worked good enough to get them out and back in to a point. Tool #2 failed last night just as soon as I put a little pressure on the wrench. Tool #3 has me welding tool #2.

I did a lot of searching on the borad and saw tools for the other two types of cylinders but nothing for my 1975B......and to be honest I probably just missed it. .

OH.......my dad (RIP) was a apprentice mechanic when he was growing up in Scotland. Their first task was to make a set of open end wrenches.....by hand. Hacksaw and a file. They didn't have/use torque wrenches. They used the finger method. They knew how long the wrench was and they would put 1,2,3 or 4 fingers on it to adjust torque. One finger on the wrench and you could only tighten it so much before you'd loose grip. He went into the RAF when the war broke out and for a time was a mechanic in the "Damn Busters" squadron. At that time they used the same method to torque.

There are lots of bolts I just torque by "feel"........then there are others I like to use the torque wrench on. This is my frst set of XS forks and I'd feel better if I had the correct torque on that connection. I'm sure if it did fail it'd give you plenty of warning......oil would start to leak.....you would think with the spring pressure on it it wouldn't turn anyway.....but heck.....it's the front end and if it falls off it's probably going to leave a scar.

I gota a million of em.........Gordon in NC

 

[gggGary]

Torque with or without locktite? I think i have 3 different "fork damper holding tools" now latest was welded onto a rebar extension. Plus a deep allen key socket that usually goes on the air impact wrench. I use torque wrenchs but not often. That bolt and the damper have fairly long threads of steel. Little chance you are going to overtorque them. My feeling is the only trick is to fully seat the damper so the end centers the aluminum tapered cup before the bolt is tightened. I have had forks get sticky when fully compressed if that cup isn't perfectly centered.

 

[Gordon in nc]

Gary, I read where Griz says to use blue loctite on that bolt. I have a lot of respect for him but in this case I'm going to go another route and not use any loctite.
That's one of the reasons I'm wanting to make sure I have the correct torque. BUT...... I can't find the value in my factory manual (at least not yet) and can only find generic values for bolt sizes.....which suggest I should be in the 20s.

Okay.......how in the world do you insure the cone is centered?????

AND..........what kinda tool do you have for those type cylinders?????

Gordon in NC

 

[gggGary]

I don't clean off old locktite but don't add any new either, I'll go take a pic, kinda forgot how I did the one for the 34mm tubes. Some cut chop weld lash up if I followed usual garyizing techniques.

 

[gggGary]

3/4" EMT a bit of welding inside, some filing. Musta worked, but looks a bit tweaked.
if the upper tube is bottomed it centers the aluminum cone as you tighten the damper bolt.

 

[Gordon in nc]

When I first started researching "fork rebuild" on this site I came across a thread I believe was started by Hugh (of hand built fame?) It was also about installing his lowering spacers. There were several GREAT photos of the tool he used on what he was calling "late" and "early" forks. I went into my rebuild thinking i had fabed the correct tool.......only to find out (you REALLY NEED to read a WHOLE thread first) there was another type of "cylinder" and neither of the tools Hugh had pictured was for that type of fork. I'm thinking the tool your picturing is for what he calls a "early" type fork.......the tool I made (per his photos) was made out of a socket......cut to expose a couple of flats. It took several failed trys before I realized something wasn't right and THEN I read the thread a little further and found some photos of the type of fork I was working on. BUT......best I could tell no photos of the tool used to remove them. My first tool for my forks was a knock off of the "cut a scocket"......and it worked well enough to remove them but there wasn't enough metal left on the ears of the tool to hold the cylinder in place while I torqued it.

I'll get a couple of photos of what I'm talking about when I get home this afternoon.

I'm hoping someone will give me a torque value so I can get these things out of the way this weekend.......the Dogwood Rally is just around the corner and i have other stuff to do on this poor thing. It's going to be embarrassing enough just ridng the thing......sure don't want things falling off of it over the weekend too....or heaven forbid it stop on the side of the road because I forgot something.

Oh yea, I'm not putting it on a trailer this year....learned my lesson last year....so I'll be a long way from home and I'm going to want to make it there and back.

Thanks for the help fellows........Gordon in NC

 

[Gordon in nc]

Here is my tool #3.......third attempt to get this done ( lets not count the tool I made for the wrong forks). I had all this stuff already in the shop....1/2 bolt, nuts, coupler, threaded rod and a piece of rubber hose. It's the upside of being a commercial construction superintendent.

I had to pull out the welder tonight and run a bead around the head of this 1/2" bolt.

I have my fingers crossed it'll will work this time. If I don't get a value......I'll make one up because I need to get the forks back on the bike tonight. I got all weekend to finish up a bunch of other stuff......but I have a lot to do and I'm running out of time.

Thanks for taking the time to help a man out..........Gordon in NC

 

[Gordon in nc]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!! #3 failed somewhere around 12 ft lbs......I could feel it beginning to spread the bolt head ( never was a good idea in the first place) but it was much better than #2 where I didn't have it welded. That thing started to spread below 10 ft lbs.

I was going to give up.......but you guys know how it is. You walk away and let your head clear and "sometimes" the light bulb comes on. the bolt head was spreading under torque, how do I stop it from doing that?

I thought about welding pieces onto the ends of the bolt head but man oh man I'm NOT that good of welder. Then the thought of a "ring" of some sort.....hmmmmmmmm. Turns out a 1/2" section of 3/4" electrical (EMT) conduit fit PERFECTLY. Any thicker and it wouldn't fit down the tube......but it goes in nicely AND more importantly it held the torque!!!!

I know I read where 5twins stated that at least one type of forks uses 16 ft lbs. I went 20 and will just live with that until I hear different. I had a new copper washer but the one that came out was red fiber????

Oh well........another item to check off the list.

Gordon in NC

 

[XSLeo]

Up in the TECH section scroll way down near the bottom. You will find Shop Tools: "Homemade and Unique tools" This is thread where we have described , shown pics and told how and why we built these tools.
You might find designs for toll you never thought you will need, till now.
Leo