Jimbo W
XS650 Enthusiast
Dave, just noticed your thread & thought I'd say hi - I live in Exmouth & have owned a 1980 XS650G since 2004. Been having carb trouble for a while, love it otherwise. Where are you in Devon?
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Jimbo W
XS650 Enthusiast
Who'd have thought it - both in the same town! Meet-up in order.
Sounds like a great idea. I'm often in the Strand on a Saturday for coffee. Sometimes I get breakfast in the Powder Monkey. I'll PM you my mobile and if you fancy it or are around then give me a ring.
BTW there's a Morris Minor meet / show called Crash Box which is on this Sunday on the rugby ground. I'll probably be there for an hour or two. They invite anyone to show a vehicle. No registration is needed you just turn up. There's usually a few classic bikes. Bring your bike along.
BTW there's a Morris Minor meet / show called Crash Box which is on this Sunday on the rugby ground. I'll probably be there for an hour or two. They invite anyone to show a vehicle. No registration is needed you just turn up. There's usually a few classic bikes. Bring your bike along.
This sounds cool but photos please....or it never happened....
BTW - this is a photo of a late 19th century powder monkey (a ship’s boy whose role was to bring explosives to the guns of a warship).
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Hah, there's lots more room than I thought. Especially if you measure from the fuel inlet lower down and NOT the overflow. #brainfart
But I'm not going to use the inline fuel filter I have. I bought it a while ago and stored it away. Now that I've got my "bottom drawer" of bits and bobs I find I've been a bit hasty. its 6mm and it needs to be 8mm. I've decided to get one of those Kawasaki fuel strainers in the EX500 post. I wish I'd read it ALL before starting.
You guys are lucky in some respects as little bits and bobs like that seem more easily available and even a bit cheaper over there. Here I can buy something for "a fiver" and postage and packing costs the same. #modernlifeproblems
Brake line was specced on line and bought from http://www.helperformance.com/custom-brake-hose. Brakes all assembled and fitted but needs fluid and bleeding.
Battery charged and fitted and surprisingly, although its not "all systems go" I have a decent spark and the indicators and warning lights including neutral indicator work. Headlight doesn't work for some reason.
Tank has been drained of old petrol, flushed out a bit. Inside looks fine. Fuel pipe all connected up and a little bit of fresh petrol run through from each side into a paper cup just see if anything nasty comes out. Fuel flows fine and clear.
Getting real exited now but needn't be. As soon as I turn the taps on fuel poured out from the pod filters. So I'm going to have to get into these carbs. They "came off a running bike". But that's a bit like "the cheques in the post". I've noticed a malformed head on the choke assembly as if the bike had fallen and also the tick over adjuster was bent and needs straightening. The two fuel drain screws are different. One has a cross-head and the other a cross head which looks like its had a slot hacksawed over the cross head. They work fine though.
A little later I realised that the right hand tap was leaking a little.
So I'm ordering a Kawasaki fuel "strainer" and a couple of rubber tap grommet/washers. FML they are £10 EACH + postage and packing. It would be gross stupidity just replace one. Oh, and some clear pipe and some other bits and bobs.
Still, when you've a petrol-soaked rag in you hand wiping some 40 year old muck off stuff seems like the right thing to do.
So I'm stalled but not stopped. I'd much rather have some problem that I know how to approach than a bike that just won't start or a charging system problem.
BTW - In case anyone is wondering, no I've not been inside the carbs yet and I do realise the jets and needles will need changing. But someone's posts online said that their bike ran after a straight swap and I'm now keen to get it making a noise of any sort.
But I'm not going to use the inline fuel filter I have. I bought it a while ago and stored it away. Now that I've got my "bottom drawer" of bits and bobs I find I've been a bit hasty. its 6mm and it needs to be 8mm. I've decided to get one of those Kawasaki fuel strainers in the EX500 post. I wish I'd read it ALL before starting.
You guys are lucky in some respects as little bits and bobs like that seem more easily available and even a bit cheaper over there. Here I can buy something for "a fiver" and postage and packing costs the same. #modernlifeproblems
Brake line was specced on line and bought from http://www.helperformance.com/custom-brake-hose. Brakes all assembled and fitted but needs fluid and bleeding.
Battery charged and fitted and surprisingly, although its not "all systems go" I have a decent spark and the indicators and warning lights including neutral indicator work. Headlight doesn't work for some reason.
Tank has been drained of old petrol, flushed out a bit. Inside looks fine. Fuel pipe all connected up and a little bit of fresh petrol run through from each side into a paper cup just see if anything nasty comes out. Fuel flows fine and clear.
Getting real exited now but needn't be. As soon as I turn the taps on fuel poured out from the pod filters. So I'm going to have to get into these carbs. They "came off a running bike". But that's a bit like "the cheques in the post". I've noticed a malformed head on the choke assembly as if the bike had fallen and also the tick over adjuster was bent and needs straightening. The two fuel drain screws are different. One has a cross-head and the other a cross head which looks like its had a slot hacksawed over the cross head. They work fine though.
A little later I realised that the right hand tap was leaking a little.
So I'm ordering a Kawasaki fuel "strainer" and a couple of rubber tap grommet/washers. FML they are £10 EACH + postage and packing. It would be gross stupidity just replace one. Oh, and some clear pipe and some other bits and bobs.
Still, when you've a petrol-soaked rag in you hand wiping some 40 year old muck off stuff seems like the right thing to do.
So I'm stalled but not stopped. I'd much rather have some problem that I know how to approach than a bike that just won't start or a charging system problem.
BTW - In case anyone is wondering, no I've not been inside the carbs yet and I do realise the jets and needles will need changing. But someone's posts online said that their bike ran after a straight swap and I'm now keen to get it making a noise of any sort.
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When the fuel poured from the pods it was just one side, I think. Also, thinking back I didn't notice anything came out of the overflow T. Maybe it's blocked? In the EX500 thread someone had capped it off (white cap) and that caused overflowing. I haven't capped it off. I've put a short length of pipe on it.
Thoughts??
It might just be a float hung up and although I'm tempted to give it a tap. I promise I won't After all, I'm a proper engineer now. I measured something the other day, so I must be.
Thoughts??
It might just be a float hung up and although I'm tempted to give it a tap. I promise I won't After all, I'm a proper engineer now. I measured something the other day, so I must be.
Jimbo W
XS650 Enthusiast
Jimbo W
XS650 Enthusiast
Hey Dave, went down to the car/bike show for an hour or so early pm (got delayed with garden jobs!) Will catch you sometime soon.
Good luck with the carbs.
Good luck with the carbs.
Hi @Jimbo W There was no bike that matched your Triumph although there were a couple of Bonnevilles there. As I was leaving I saw the back of someone on a Triumph, so that might have been you.
Re the carbs - I think I've been a bit optimistic to expect that a set of twenty year old carbs will be a straight swap for a set of forty year old carbs without even opening them up. Lesson learned. I think I'll go through them properly. I have to wait for some bits anyway. (embarrassed).
Re the carbs - I think I've been a bit optimistic to expect that a set of twenty year old carbs will be a straight swap for a set of forty year old carbs without even opening them up. Lesson learned. I think I'll go through them properly. I have to wait for some bits anyway. (embarrassed).
Not to worry Dave - EVERYONE on the Forum has had a brain f@rt here and there or had to back-track on a project. That is all part of the fun and it gives us fodder for the campfire tales we all tell later.
Pete
Pete
Its been a while. I've been in Majorca. No, I'm not brown. Kep' my parka on.
I came back through the front door to a rather satisfying small pile of goodies, though. JIS screwdrivers, 3mm cap-head screws, Kawasaki in-line strainer/filter; some clear tubing; and a replacement rubber washers for the fuel taps.
When I last posted I had petrol pouring out of my carbs and slight petrol weeping from the front of both taps. So I installed the new rubber washers and replaced the cross head screws in the taps with cap-head screws. This stopped the taps from turning fully as the cap heads are slightly taller than the cross heads. So I filed a very slight flat on the back of the tap "handles" just enough to clear the cap heads.
My main front face weeping had been fixed but after some investigation with clear tubing I found that neither was actually flowing very well. One side seemed slow and the other only flowed only from the "reserve". So I took the tap off to completely disassemble it. What a mess? The gubbins from the melted washer had combined with grit, aluminium oxide, varnish and what may have been tip off a cotton bud or maybe just fluff to bung up the brass pipe. There was also a considerable amount (forty years worth?) of grit and other debris. The space was full but cleaning this out revealed a small brass filter built into the tap. This makes my purchase of the Kawasaki inline filter surplus to requirements but hey, its going in. You can't have too much filtering right?
So, I've spent a very satisfying afternoon rebuilding both taps. Not something I'd planned on.
View attachment 125439
I forgot to take a picture of the first one. This one was reasonable.
I came back through the front door to a rather satisfying small pile of goodies, though. JIS screwdrivers, 3mm cap-head screws, Kawasaki in-line strainer/filter; some clear tubing; and a replacement rubber washers for the fuel taps.
When I last posted I had petrol pouring out of my carbs and slight petrol weeping from the front of both taps. So I installed the new rubber washers and replaced the cross head screws in the taps with cap-head screws. This stopped the taps from turning fully as the cap heads are slightly taller than the cross heads. So I filed a very slight flat on the back of the tap "handles" just enough to clear the cap heads.
My main front face weeping had been fixed but after some investigation with clear tubing I found that neither was actually flowing very well. One side seemed slow and the other only flowed only from the "reserve". So I took the tap off to completely disassemble it. What a mess? The gubbins from the melted washer had combined with grit, aluminium oxide, varnish and what may have been tip off a cotton bud or maybe just fluff to bung up the brass pipe. There was also a considerable amount (forty years worth?) of grit and other debris. The space was full but cleaning this out revealed a small brass filter built into the tap. This makes my purchase of the Kawasaki inline filter surplus to requirements but hey, its going in. You can't have too much filtering right?
So, I've spent a very satisfying afternoon rebuilding both taps. Not something I'd planned on.
View attachment 125439
I forgot to take a picture of the first one. This one was reasonable.
Attachments
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The Kawasaki inline filter is mentioned somewhere in the long, EX500 carb thread. For anyone who's interested the part number is 49019-1085. Mine cost £3.95. It fits into the t--shaped fuel inlet spigot on the carb set and the fuel pipe fits over it.
I ordered fuel tap washers from an e-Bay seller in Thailand. The picture showed a bag, new old stock with the original Yamaha label. They were $15 US. They are about that each in the UK (£10.95) so I wasn't sure if this was for one or for the bag. After a few abortive eBay messages between us I was none the wiser. So I ordered ONE knowing I could get them overnight in the UK and went on holiday.
Hooray, a bag of TEN. If anyone wants a pair PM me. I'll post them to you.
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I've had a small investigate with the carbs. They were overflowing and still are. Once I'd taken the pods off it appeared to be coming from the two vents in the carb throat. The black, t-shaped vent isn't capped off or blocked. (At least I can blow through it.) I took the carb bowls off and no debris or grit in either of the needle valves. No fuel in the floats and they spring up and down nicely. The seats for the needle valves look clean and intact. The rubber tips are still there. I've got a magnifying glass somewhere so I'll have a closer look later.
Next is reading up how to set the floats. Also there are two air screws on the underneath so finding out how many turns out for them. Are these usually plugged to stop fiddling with emissions settings?
I should have bought JIS screwdrivers ages ago. Every screw on the carb released with a satisfying snap and not a sickening "cam out".
Blogging this all seems a bit of an indulgence considering the builds going on here, but like giving up smoking, I thought the best way to stick at it was to tell people I'm doing it. At this rate I'll be ready to kick it over by Christmas.
Next is reading up how to set the floats. Also there are two air screws on the underneath so finding out how many turns out for them. Are these usually plugged to stop fiddling with emissions settings?
I should have bought JIS screwdrivers ages ago. Every screw on the carb released with a satisfying snap and not a sickening "cam out".
Blogging this all seems a bit of an indulgence considering the builds going on here, but like giving up smoking, I thought the best way to stick at it was to tell people I'm doing it. At this rate I'll be ready to kick it over by Christmas.
It started.
Had to hold in the choke with my thumb and press the starter whilst ignoring the horrible grinding noise - I couldn't seem to find a position where I could hold the choke with my thumb and kick at the same time. The starter has never worked without embarrassing noises so I'd never used it, I recall. I didn't know how to fix it then, but I do now.
Bit of throttle and away she went. I haven't changed the jets and needles yet so I wont be going anywhere. But I was confident that it would at least start on standard jetting. Both exhausts are hot. Chuffed to bits.
Yesterday I had petrol everywhere. Today I gave the carbs a quick run through with carb cleaner and cleaned and inspected the float needles. I thought everything was squeaky clean but the yellow haze rubbed off the float needle shiny bits so the rubber tips probably had a bit of a coating too. A bit of t-cut on a several Q-tips and cleaned up the faces that the rubber tip rests on and then the same with carb cleaner. Set the floats to 17mm. One was OK the other was out.
Put the carbs back on the bike and slight petrol drip - again - but this time from one tap and in one place. I had to rebuild the tap hoping I wouldn't need a kit. There were two problems. The tap splits in half, and one side has a slight raised ridge running around it. The gasket was OK-ish. But the other face is machined beautifully flat. Except that mine had a slight imperfection where the leak was. I thought it was gunge but after rubbing with carb cleaner and a thumbnail it began to look like someone had held it in a vice, or pliers or maybe dropped it on the floor (and stood on it for good measure). Five minutes with some emery cloth and oil on a flat surface whilst crossing my fingers I wouldn't have to buy a new tap had it looking OK.
There was no leak from the front face but it felt different to the other. The plate didn't seem to be pulled down equally on both sides. The rubber washer didn't seem to want to go back over the four holes and comparing it with a new one showed that once petrol had touched it, it had expanded - quite a bit actually. I don't know whether this is because they are new old stock but replacing it fixed the problem and now both felt the same. Very tight but not even a whisper of petrol.
Tank back on, pipes fitted, petrol in, taps on. No petrol leaking from the carbs. Tighten up jubilee clips on the carb rubbers. Kick. Nothing. Push on choke press starter. You know the rest.
Had to hold in the choke with my thumb and press the starter whilst ignoring the horrible grinding noise - I couldn't seem to find a position where I could hold the choke with my thumb and kick at the same time. The starter has never worked without embarrassing noises so I'd never used it, I recall. I didn't know how to fix it then, but I do now.
Bit of throttle and away she went. I haven't changed the jets and needles yet so I wont be going anywhere. But I was confident that it would at least start on standard jetting. Both exhausts are hot. Chuffed to bits.
Yesterday I had petrol everywhere. Today I gave the carbs a quick run through with carb cleaner and cleaned and inspected the float needles. I thought everything was squeaky clean but the yellow haze rubbed off the float needle shiny bits so the rubber tips probably had a bit of a coating too. A bit of t-cut on a several Q-tips and cleaned up the faces that the rubber tip rests on and then the same with carb cleaner. Set the floats to 17mm. One was OK the other was out.
Put the carbs back on the bike and slight petrol drip - again - but this time from one tap and in one place. I had to rebuild the tap hoping I wouldn't need a kit. There were two problems. The tap splits in half, and one side has a slight raised ridge running around it. The gasket was OK-ish. But the other face is machined beautifully flat. Except that mine had a slight imperfection where the leak was. I thought it was gunge but after rubbing with carb cleaner and a thumbnail it began to look like someone had held it in a vice, or pliers or maybe dropped it on the floor (and stood on it for good measure). Five minutes with some emery cloth and oil on a flat surface whilst crossing my fingers I wouldn't have to buy a new tap had it looking OK.
There was no leak from the front face but it felt different to the other. The plate didn't seem to be pulled down equally on both sides. The rubber washer didn't seem to want to go back over the four holes and comparing it with a new one showed that once petrol had touched it, it had expanded - quite a bit actually. I don't know whether this is because they are new old stock but replacing it fixed the problem and now both felt the same. Very tight but not even a whisper of petrol.
Tank back on, pipes fitted, petrol in, taps on. No petrol leaking from the carbs. Tighten up jubilee clips on the carb rubbers. Kick. Nothing. Push on choke press starter. You know the rest.
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Is 17mm the right float height? (EX500) I got this from a Kawasaki forum and it said "consult your manual for your year". I did a search on this forum but couldn't find anything which mentioned the correct measurement.
Oh, and I learned what the other end of a micrometer is for. Measuring depths … and float height.
Oh, and I learned what the other end of a micrometer is for. Measuring depths … and float height.
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PROGRESS!!!
Love it Dave - keep at it.
Pete
Love it Dave - keep at it.
Pete
...and don't we all need some encouragement / a good swift kick up the backside ....the odd time.....
Pete
Pete
Well thanks @mrriggs for documenting the "nail head" modification. Managed to do it successfully myself.
I managed to grind the head off a bit more neatly the second time, honest. The short piece of pipe was to protect the needle in the vice. (It must have been before my first cup of coffee because they both went in the bin)
Used a small socket to support the head. (The sockets were a Christmas present. I've never found a use for them.)
Used a cross head from the same as a punch.
They came out with only the smallest of taps. I need a 2.5mm drill bit to enlarge the hole and I'm good to go.
I managed to grind the head off a bit more neatly the second time, honest. The short piece of pipe was to protect the needle in the vice. (It must have been before my first cup of coffee because they both went in the bin)
Used a small socket to support the head. (The sockets were a Christmas present. I've never found a use for them.)
Used a cross head from the same as a punch.
They came out with only the smallest of taps. I need a 2.5mm drill bit to enlarge the hole and I'm good to go.
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