Spark Plug Colour - Spark Plug Color

[Skubik]

I know what you mean. Well good news is that after reviewing some of those threads Paul Sutton suggested and Peanut sent me on the "weak magnet syndrome" and "TCI trouble shooting" (great stuff) I started paying more attention to that area. The magnet on the pickup didn't seem weak (was touching with my screwdriver) but the engine was definitely changing as I disconnected and reconnected the rectifier. I was already looking at maybe buying a small magnet to epoxy on top of the current magnet when it occurred to me to first clean rotor really good with cleaner and wipe down the rotor and magnet/pickup. Once I did that it worked great! Crazy what a little dirt will screw up on your machine. Both pipes are now getting hot, bike idles good and revs up good at idle. Still doesn't ride very good tho feels anemic So with that left cold pipe out of the way I'm back to looking at the carburetors and fuel. Peanut I wrote down my specs in my signature as you suggested sir, should make it easier. Bs34 carbs with pods and Omar's half mile pipes, 650 central rejet kit with titanium needles, 3rd slot position, 3.5 turns out, 135 main jet, 45 pilot, new needle jets, gaskets, orings, and rubber plugs that come with rebuild kit, floats adjusted to 22mm while I had the carbs upside down, new plugs, wires, ultimate ignition, just adjusted valves, manual petcock, using premium gas, new fuel in line filter. All fluids recently changed and oil filter, tested good compression.

 

[Hyde]

Watch those tapets from Mike's closely. The last set I had in my bike beat themselves down to nothing with spins arround the block and garage tuning. Perhaps I've got the latest cheap batch outta China, but worth keeping a close ear on

 

[peanut]

I know what you mean. Well good news is that after reviewing some of those threads Paul Sutton suggested and Peanut sent me on the "weak magnet syndrome" and "TCI trouble shooting" (great stuff) I started paying more attention to that area. The magnet on the pickup didn't seem weak (was touching with my screwdriver) but the engine was definitely changing as I disconnected and reconnected the rectifier. I was already looking at maybe buying a small magnet to epoxy on top of the current magnet when it occurred to me to first clean rotor really good with cleaner and wipe down the rotor and magnet/pickup. Once I did that it worked great! Crazy what a little dirt will screw up on your machine. Both pipes are now getting hot, bike idles good and revs up good at idle. Still doesn't ride very good tho feels anemic So with that left cold pipe out of the way I'm back to looking at the carburetors and fuel. Peanut I wrote down my specs in my signature as you suggested sir, should make it easier. Bs34 carbs with pods and Omar's half mile pipes, 650 central rejet kit with titanium needles, 3rd slot position, 3.5 turns out, 135 main jet, 45 pilot, new needle jets, gaskets, orings, and rubber plugs that come with rebuild kit, floats adjusted to 22mm while I had the carbs upside down, new plugs, wires, ultimate ignition, just adjusted valves, manual petcock, using premium gas, new fuel in line filter. All fluids recently changed and oil filter, tested good compression.

great post and excellent progress although I still don't understand how a dirty rotor could cause poor ignition on one cylinder . The charging system shouldn't effect the ignition system at all especially on just one cylinder ?

 

[Skubik]

Yeah it's weird, for now I'm just glad that issue is resolved. Thinking I'm gonna have to try some different jet sizes to fix my rideability issue.
Too bad about those tappets Hyde I hope I have better luck!

 

[Paul Sutton]

I agree 650Skull, bit of a puzzle. But killing the power to the rotor seems to solve the issue. Easy to eliminate this issue by gluing on a new magnet.

 

[650Skull]

to eliminate that area specifically, the pick up will need to be tested as well........not just cleaned.... There is a procedure to test it.........in the manual i think

 

[Skubik]

Good idea, I believe there was a procedure to test it in that same link from peanut "TCI troubleshooting"

There was a lot of black dust or something on the rotor, as I cleaned it it left my towel black; almost reminded of brake dust. There was a layer thick enough to at least interfere with the pickup in my opinion especially if a magnet is already weakening. I just bought the bike last year, before that it sat for over 10 years in someone's shop but it looked like at some point it was riden pretty frequently. I didn't have to open up the engine but maybe I should of cleaned this area up from the get go.

 

[Skubik]

What's up all. How's the weather where you're at? Texas weather is great aside from all the hurricanes popping up on the gulf all of a sudden geesh! Feel bad for the folks in Houston, Florida, and all areas afflicted by the storms.

Well, you guys were right cleaning the rotor temporarily helped but it just kept going back and forth. I just bit the bullet and found me a small rare earth magnet and stuck that sucker to my existing magnet on the rotor, I'm feeling optimistic but I won't know if it worked or not till tomorrow. I'm letting the epoxy cure really good before cranking her up. I also realized that my bike being an 80 with brass floats needs to be adjusted to 27.3mm and not 22mm :/ (don't laugh) yeah I wondered why it was running lean...I went ahead and moved my needle up one notch to the 4th slot. I'm feeling optimistic about it running good also, it was leaning out on me big time. For now it idled good and plugs looked good prior to the rare earth magnet with rectifier disconnected.

1980 650 special
Stock TCI ignition with ultimate coil and iridium plugs. Omar's 1/2 mile pipes and pod filters.

Running a 135 main
45 pilot
2 turns out on the fuel screw
4th slot on needle
27.3 ish float adjustment.

 

[Skubik]

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Probably should check ignition timing with a timing light after that...

 

[peanut]

. I also realized that my bike being an 80 with brass floats needs to be adjusted to 27.3mm and not 22mm :/ (don't laugh) yeah I wondered why it was running lean...
1980 650 special

ok I had to larf about the float settings sorry ..

Don't worry most of us would admit to making the same mistakes until we eventually became aquainted with all the different modifications, and specification changes thoughout the model years.

This morning I received my eagerly awaited Main jet ....all one of it ! .............
I Must have forgot to hit the 2 button on ebay. doh

Thats great feedback Skubik and kudos for persevering with this . Sounds like you might have it running right pretty soon[/QUOTE]

 

[Skubik]

Yeah rookie mistake! lol I've only been an XS650 owner for a year but I refuse to just take the bike to a shop at this point. Bike is slowly losing its mistery and I've gotten pretty good around the carbs and most areas of the bike, I put it all together minus the engine.The magnet on the rotor worked from what I can tell, it sounds good with rectifier connected or disconnected and pipes are hot. I'm gonna take her out for a spin to confirm and also see if my other adjustments fixed my other lean issues, this might be my lucky day! Lol
I'm having more fun figuring these things out on my own with the help of you guys, plus it helps to know how to fix and maintain your toys in case you're left stranded somewhere. Sometimes you just have to know your toys little quirks to get back on the road; you don't get that knowledge by paying someone else to fix your stuff. I will however take it someplace to rebuild my engine, tranny etc..gotta know your limitations also and sometimes it saves you money to just let an expert handle the big jobs .

So here's a dumb question (peanut get ready to laugh again) but I just have to ask for peace of mind. So at the advice of TooManyXS1bs (we'll refer to him as TMXS1bs, man that's still too long lol) I checked the timing with a timing light, the timing mark on the rotor lines up with the Firing mark labeled F, upon acceleration the timing mark moves forward to the left and away from the F but once I release the throttle it goes back to the F (firing mark). That tells me my timing is good but I wanted to double check. Once the bike is fired the timing mark should not align with the T (TDC) correct?

 

[650Skull]

If the mark aligns with the F mark on idle, the timing is spot on.......

 

[Skubik]

Sweeeet!

 

[Skubik]

1980 650 special
Stock TCI ignition with ultimate coil and iridium plugs. Omar's 1/2 mile pipes and foam pod filters.

Running a 145 main (went up from 135)
45 pilot
2 turns out on the fuel screw
4th slot on needle
27.3 ish float adjustment.

Fellas, been searching for an answer but doesn't seem to be a common question, hoping you guys can help me out. What's the speed at which the float bowls should be filling at? Or I might ask what will work for normal street riding? :/ I had a steady drip on left bowl which seemed ok to me, non existent drip on right which was causing a leaning problem, then after messing with the right side for half a day I got it to come out beautifully, like a faucet (exaggerating a bit) but steady flow for sure. Put it together and no leaks on that side so float Is doing its thing

Left side is still at a steady drip but after getting that flow on the right side I would like to have the same on the left, I tried to get the same flow as the right side but I ran out of sun light and wife gave me "the look". Is a steady drip good enough to keep my float bowl full? Should they both flow out at around the same rate? I haven't ridden the bike far enough to know and would hate to lean out on that left carb on a long ride. I'm so close, I think once I figure this float bowl filling issue out she'll be golden. Any help with these questions is appreciated as always.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

At normal cruise speeds, engine in good tune, you'll be burning a little over 1cc of fuel per second. There's about 20 drops per CC, which means that each carb should be able to receive, as a minimum, at least 15 drops per second.

Yes, both carbs' float valves should be flowing free...

 

[Skubik]

Thanks twomanyxs1bs, I appreciate the help and patience my friend. So I went out to the garage one more time to give it a last go and fixed my problem. The T line that sits between both carbs supplying fuel to both carbs needed adjustment, I had already tried to adjust it but with fear of using too much force; this time I carefully but with more force pried the T line from the left just a tad to the right and that evened out my flow on both sides. Can't wait to ride tomorrow and see if my changes worked. On top of getting he bowls to fill up faster, I also adjusted the floats and increased my main jet from 135 to 145. Thanks again all

 

[650Skull]

Seems this left side not firing is an issue from when the bike was built........... http://www.xs650.com/threads/float-bowl-extremely-slow-flow.48762/ Reading back over the thread/link you mention carb kits, new adjustable needles from 650 central, coil from mikesXS.
Seems you had success playing with the fuel T........seems a bit odd..................maybe revisit some of the suggestions and and add some of the thoughts into this thread..........Needle valve was leaking......was the seat for the valve checked..........Just rambling thoughts.
When you replaced the needle was the needle jet replaced as well ???

Seems to me you have the same problem as you always have been having...........playing with the t again to get the fuel flowing..........this was mentioned in your first thread and that solved the problem then as well, same side and all................Been here before...............

In my mind you haven't solved the problem..........the T's should not be causing this issue,or by shifting the T it allows fuel to flow freely...????..........I would be investigating, why.

 

[Skubik]

Hey there 650Skull, Yes sir originally the T was leaking and flow was extremely slow, old bike I had just bought it and sat for over 10 years according to the seller so lots of small annoying issues. I noticed that if I pushed in on the T in either direction the leak would either get better or worse due to cracked seals. I followed some advice on how to fix it and took it apart and solved the leak by replacing the cracked seals at the ends of the T with some pieces of fuel hose (I forget the size diameter hose 1/4" maybe?). I noticed that there was some play in the T as it can be pushed in to the left carb or the right slightly, didn't leak anymore at all but there was still slight give to either side, I just centered it and left it at that. The flow to the float bowls was a steady drip, not knowing any different I thought it was normal until now that I realized it should be a steady flow to keep those bowls consistently full. When I finally got the steady flow on the right bowl I knew I wanted the same on the left so I tried blowing compressed air, squirting wd40 and even some carb cleaner down to try and unclog the left side but nothing worked until I remembered the slight give on the tee to either side. I guessed that if the flow on the right is pretty fast it could mean the T is pushed a little too much to the left carb restricting flow somehow. It was a long shot but the flow increased and evened out with the flow on the right side after I pried the T over to the right a little. It's pretty tight so took a little effort, No leaks from the T or bowl gaskets. I'm gonna stay optimistic and see how it works tomorrow when I take her out.

 

[xjwmx]

Seems like a good article, but I like to keep it a little more simple.
If your plugs look like the plug in the centre, you have good combustion.

Oil will throw it off, even if there's no oil on the plug. You might think the plug is a perfect color when if you weren't burning oil it would look lean as hell.