Tool Question (no, not what does 46 & 2 mean) Remote Tachometer

[5twins]

Maybe, it just may take some math. That's how you use the dwell function, divide your 2 cyl. dwell value by 2 (single points) or 4 (dual points) for reading on the 4 cyl. scale. For example, the dwell value listed in the 650 shop manual is 93° ± 5°, or 88° to 98°. Divide that by 4 because of the 650's dual points set-up and you're looking to see 22° to 24.5° on the 4 cyl. scale. The dwell meter reading is inversely related to the points gap size. In other words, a smaller number means a larger gap. I try to get them as close to 22° as possible (instead of 24.5°). Points usually wear closed so I figure setting them to the largest in spec value will allow them to remain in spec longer as they gradually wear.

Setting points gaps with a dwell meter is the only way I do it any more. I don't get a feeler gauge any where near them. I gap them by eye (granted, this takes some experience), start the bike, and have at it with the dwell meter.

 

[grizld1]

Gordon, don't fret too much about settings based on number of cylinders; all you need to remember is that on your 4-stroke single the ignition puts out 1 firing pulse every other revolution. Just fool with the settings until you find one that gives you an easy factor to work with when you do your mental math on indicated rpm. If in doubt, apply a factor that makes sense; your ear will get you close enough for that!

 

[Gordon in nc]

"easy factor to work with when you do your mental math"

Oh my....you and 5twins haven't actually met me in person yet. My friends??? the late 60s and early 70s were VERY rough on me....or it was more like I was VERY rough on myself during that time. Mental math??????? yea right. Maybe...if one of you were sitting in the shop with me and you got out the BIG pencil and talked VERY slowly....and went over it a dozen times....I "might" get it. Getting older hasn't actually made me wiser either.

I got lost with the dwell deal......I still remember using cigarette pack wrappers to set points.....and rode thousands of miles with them set that way. But.....I was being followed by a cloud back then and there;'s a good chance the bike ran like crap and I never noticed.

The price is sure right......I'm going to get one just for the heck of it and give it a try....but I want a back up that uses BIG numbers and all I have to do is read them.

Now I have to try and remember where I left my glasses so I can see the darn thing????????????????????????

Gordon in NC 2+2= uh????? wait a minute, where's the TI 30??

 

[5twins]

I was no angel in my youth either but as you get older, you usually tend to lay off and out-grow the constant "party time". But then, some people never do, lol. Today, I tend to think more about partying than actually doing it. I don't see the point of going through life constantly wasted, lol. It's tough to get anything done or accomplished.

I think once you get the hang of using a dwell meter for points, you'll never go back to the feeler gauges. There's too much room for "user error" with them, also the very real chance of contaminating the points faces if there's even the slightest amount of oil on the blade. They also are no good for setting used points that have developed some pitting. The spark jumps between the pits and well, you just can't measure that with a feeler gauge. The dwell meter doesn't measure the points gap but instead shows you the time or duration of how long the points set remains closed in one complete revolution of the motor (360°). That's why a dwell spec is in degrees.

 

[weekendrider]

I was being followed by a cloud back then

Being followed by or the source of. You can close your eyes but you'll still see with a little help from LSD.
So how'd ya figure all that concrete you layed???

 

[mrtwowheel]

Those little bikes are a nice ride, but after a few rides I was always thinking about designing a new bell crank for the carb.

Scott

 

[Gordon in nc]

<snip> So how'd ya figure all that concrete you layed???

Okay.....you "pour" or "place" concrete......you "lay" blocks, bricks and if your lucky the pretty women next door. ( I know, everybody likes a little ass but nobody likes a smart ass)

Boys.....I gave up the partying a long time ago. I have late in life twins (25 yo) that have never seen me drink a beer.....gave it all up and walked away. But I have never been good with math....never.

WER.......I am a commercial construction superintendent.....I carry a construction calculator with me as long as I'm on the job and also carry a note book to write stuff down. I can look at a set of prints .....get a measurement and if I don't write it down I forget it before I take 10 steps. Nowadays I just take a photo of it with my phone. The calculator does all the work.....I just know which buttons to push. I've never been good with math so I need to take that out of equation ( yup pun intended) if I can.

I kinda kid about my early years and to tell the truth....it's a wonder I'm still around. I went in the service in 1968....got out in 74. Had a lot of fun and have many good memories but....we were kinda of wild back then. The kinda stuff you didn't want your mom to know. Fueled by Budweiser, Wild Turkey , and a host of other stuff...most of which were not legal. But those days are long gone and I really don't miss em.

Math.......and me just don't get along.

Enough about how lame I am.........back to tools.

Gordon in NC.....who for the moment is concerned about setting the mixture on this thing. It's close...but still not right. This thing has an exciter coil and a ignition pulse generator.....they musta forgot the points???????

 

[Gordon in nc]

Okay, I picked up one of the 5twin meters and will try to figure out this dwell thing because some of my bikes have points.

But......I caved and purchased the GTC TA100. If I had the skills grizld has I'd go for the 3340 but I'm afraid I'm one of those fellows that couldn't figure out how to make it work and then complain about it.

Looks like the GTC is idot proof. I'll let you know how it works once I get it in my hands.

I've read several threads where 5twins talks about using dwell instead of feeler gauges.....................I'm going to learn how to do that one way or the other....just might take some head scratching since I only have a vauge understanding of what it actually is.

Okay enough for now and I want to thank all of you that took the time to try to help.......if it hadn't been for griz being kind enough to reply.....I wouldn't have found the GTC.

Take care.......ride safe and enjoy the cooler weather (on our side of the world).....Gordon in NC

 

[grizld1]

That Sperry meter looks like a lot of bang for the buck. The GTC looks like a very nifty unit. But IDOT proof? I dunno, Gordon, the Illinois Department of Transportation can screw up a wet dream....

 

[Gordon in nc]

grizld...I have 60-80 workers on site right now and I deal with all kinds of stupid every day. There is no cure for it.

The GTC looks like something I could make work. I'll report back on how easy/hard it is to use for our older motorcycles.

Thanks again for the help.......Gordon in NC

 

[grizld1]

One thing to remember when you use that gadget, Gordon: rpm's wander a bit even on the best tuned motor. We don't notice that much with OE onboard tachs because they're buffered, but you'll see a bit of it with a digital tuning tach; if you see the display shifting over a small range, it's not a cause for concern.

2Many and 5twins, you tempted me and I had to buy that Sperry meter--the price was just too good to pass up.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Griz, just for grins, lookit the expiration date on the included batteries...

 

[Gordon in nc]

One thing to remember when you use that gadget, Gordon: rpm's wander a bit even on the best tuned motor. We don't notice that much with OE onboard tachs because they're buffered, but you'll see a bit of it with a digital tuning tach; if you see the display shifting over a small range, it's not a cause for concern. <snip>

grizld, THANKS for that tip....I've never used one of these things so any and all information/tips/warnings are welcomed.

I figure (?) I should be able to compare the two meters and be able to tell which scale to use on the Sperry. (even with my lack of math skills) That Sperry meter looks like it'll be a good tool kit item (I carry everything but the kitchen sink).

I'll report back on how these things work for me......I'm looking forward to learning something new.

You guys are probably going to have to talk me through the dwell deal but I'll do my homework first and if it's anything like what 5twins has covered in the past....I should be able to follow along. I've said it before....I know web sites that would give their left carb nut to have fellows like you guys as members.

Take care and thanks again for taking the time to help.........Gordon in NC

 

[5twins]

If you don't have them already, you might want to get or rig up some alligator clips for the ends of your meter probes. Some meters include them but unfortunately, the Sperry does not. You can use it just by touching the probes to the points wire and ground but the clips make for easier hands-free operation .....

They do sell them made special for this purpose. They're only a couple bucks on eBay. They're made to slip right on the ends of the probes .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pair-Multi...9962f8a&pid=100033&rk=2&rkt=8&sd=261646700537

 

[Gordon in nc]

GREAT TIP (yup another intended pun) 5twins. I'll make sure I fab some up....I have plenty of alligator clips in the shop. All my bike tool kits have a set of jumpers with them on both ends.....love em.

Back in my misspent youth I was taught how to solder by NASA.......long story, but it's one of the few things I learned in the service that I still use today....along with how I fold my towels and socks :O) I don't think it'll be a problem making up a set of jumpers for the Sperry or to add clips to the probe ends.......Great idea.

As soon as I get past this RPM thing I'm going to be asking you for help trying to understand dwell. I "think" I have a basic understanding of "what" it is.....but I've never dealt with it.

Take care......looking forward to UPS dropping off new stuff. Gordon in NC

 

[grizld1]

Trained by NASA--I knew it! Gents, what we have here is a certified rocket scientist agitating us. Sure, you can't do the math--shame on ya for messing with our heads, Gordon!

The Sperry meter arrived today. 2M, the date on that battery is April 1999, and weirdly enough it not only hadn't corroded the works, it still had enough juice in it to operate the ohm meter (changed it out right away, of course). The bonus is that the tach operates by direct hookup to the coil rather than through an inductive pickup: if you're getting spikes from a noisy signal you can stick a megaohm or so of resisters in one of the leads and calm the reading down. Thanks again for the tip, guys--it's going to be a great takealong tool.

 

[Gordon in nc]

Trained by NASA--I knew it! Gents, what we have here is a certified rocket scientist agitating us <snip>

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.......................not a certified rocket scientist....not by a long shot. It's a long story, best saved for the camp fire and I hope one of these days we'll get to share one or two together.

I was at Edwards AFB and part of our mission was to support the USAF's Test Pilot School. We had other missions, but a small part of our's was to maintain the dash 6 full pressure suit the students used during their zoom maneuvers. One of the tasks was to solder the communication's pin connector. NASA used the same suit for their lifting body program (for runner to the shuttle) and since we worked with NASA too.....we got trained by them on some stuff.

Geeze.........with all this 77 stuff going around I'm feeling pretty bad about sharing stuff about ME!!!!!!!!!

My meters should be here Monday....looking forward to it.

Gordon in NC

 

[grizld1]

That's OK, Gordon; your stories are worth reading.

 

[Gordon in nc]

Got my meters in the mail today. The Ta100 looks sweet but the carb is still soaking waiting for parts to deliver so I can get it back together for the second time...no shortcuts this time around I'm doing it right. I should know better....

The Sperry Meter. Nice BUT.......mine came with a black glob in the display. Dangit. I replaced the battery (following 2Ms advice) and the glob is still there. Blown display????? I can still read the numbers. The glob is over on the far left of the screen. BUT......the heck with it I decided to call them and see what they were willing to do. Talk about feeling like a cheapskate. The fellow on the other end of the phone asked me a couple of questions about who I was and my address and said " I'll drop another one in the mail ASAP". Less than five minutes after I hung up I get an email notice that one was already marked for shipping. "What do you want me to do with this other one, ship it back to you?" I asked........."Just keep it or throw it in the trash, no problem" the guys says.
You gota love people who do business like that.....oh and the phone call was toll free.

Report to follow..........Gordon in NC

 

[5twins]

Cool, now you got two, lol.