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Tools - JIS screwdrivers (Pete’s annual rant)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MaxPete, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Some of the screws are pretty difficult. The hardest one I know of holds the cam chain adjusting innards.
     
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  2. DoubleE

    DoubleE XS650 Enthusiast

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    My Impacta is now 40+ years old. When I bought it as a high school punk, I had no idea what JIS was- I just needed an impact. But after years of use, there are few sounds as pleasing as the ping of the hammer and the simultaneous turning of a bolt/screw. As a corollary, I have often used Mailman's technique of preloading tension on a bolt with a spanner and simultaneously hitting it with a hammer. But I must say the real revelation was gggGary's tip to chase dirty threads before reassembly.
     
  3. geedubya

    geedubya geedubya Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter


    Yup Fred,

    Everything I took off from my ground up build is now Allen Head and so farking easy to use.

    Geedub
     
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  4. peanut

    peanut XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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  5. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    2M so that's why those 60's Hondas with long noodly cover screws were such a pain! I certainly remember trying to tighten and tighten and tighten them till I realized the screw "neck" was just stretching. Bought my first hand impact from the local parts store in about 69 because of them. Still have it, and two more, one at every bench. Yes impact matters, I think that's my number one carb brass trick. Before attempting to turn any brass on an assembled decades ago carb, spritz with rust buster, fit the PROPER screw driver, don't try to turn yet, tap the end of the screw driver a time or two with a small hammer, THEN with carb on flat surface, solid straight downwards pressure, slow and controlled, increase lefty loosey torque til you hear that satisfying tink of brass thread freeing from aluminum. If you have experience :rolleyes: you can feel the brass slot start to yield BEFORE it's a disaster . STOP if you haven't, add heat, hair dryer or if you are real careful heat gun, repeat in a tightening direction, alternate.
    As others have said insert a driver bit, give the screw, allen etc a size appropriate rap with a hammer before you go back to twisting. shocking the threads works!
    I fully agree with and use 2m's thread setting technique for assembly. IIRC studies show threads micro weld when tightened. That slight jerk at the end in place of slow steady torque aids the microwelds that hold the bolt in place without excessive torque. I practice this regularly tightening the nut on tappets, a fitting notorious for loosening with disastrous results. These are learned techniques, we are usually dealing with easily stripped aluminum, use caution, FEEL what your tools tell you, don't go ape on any screw, bolt, nut. If something doesn't feel right, STOP, think, change your technique.

    broken bolt.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  6. rick1956

    rick1956 Just a regular guy.

    Since I've owned my JIS drivers (4-pc set) I've noticed that the lower two sizes are where the difference really shines. The bigger sizes of screws (like near phillips #3) are way more forgiving. Working on small stuff (carbs, gauges, electrical parts, etc) is a very noticeable improvement with the JIS tips...
     
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  7. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I wonder if smaller screw heads are easier to strip, for some reason -- less material to remove before you could consider it's stripped, for sure :D But at the same time, the smaller should not start out as tight.
     
  8. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Its usually not "tightness" that causes screws to seem to be locked-in. It normally turns out to be schumtz (dirt, chips from machining or other debris) on the threads when they were installed and/or corrosion on the threads or underneath the head of the screw or bolt.

    Smaller fasteners simply have less material to corrode before they become so weak that they cannot withstand much loosening torque before they break.

    That is why it is so important to clean the exterior of every threaded fastener and the underside of the head of every screw and bolt as well as the inside of every threaded hole and the face where the head will seat, before installing and tightening a threaded fastener.

    Remember: cleanliness is next to oil-tightliness!*

    Pete

    * how's that for a snazzy new word?
     
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  9. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I guess that's why I'm such a big fan of anti-seize compound. Pretty much every nut and bolt on the whole bike gets it, except for internal fasteners inside the engine and carbs. But even those have their threads lubed with oil or something light like WD40 before going together. I don't like to assemble anything totally dry. My "weapon" of choice .....

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Goldenboy

    Goldenboy . XS650.com Supporter

    On little old screws that dont budge with a screw driver, I'll use machine oil, make sure the driver is firmly set in the screw slot and tap with a plastic mallit, first, then my last shot at loosening goes with a suitable sized ball peen. I've even used candles to slowly heat oiled parts to penetrate badly rusted nuts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  11. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    How does the candling work? I've used torches to blast anything making it stick to ash...
     
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  12. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Since I got a heat gun, I rarely, if ever, use an open flame anymore. The heat gun set on high gets the nut/bolt and surrounding area plenty hot, enough to "smoke" off any penetrating oil I've applied, and too hot to touch. It's helped me out lots of times.
     
  13. MaxPete

    MaxPete Life with Lucille...I suggest, she decides. Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Okey doke - I ordered two sets of the JIS impact bits from www.gofastinnovations.com yesterday morning and here they are today in my mailbox!

    BDF42B6E-AFBC-4FEC-B9D7-D70C61F0A47A.jpeg
     
  14. I’ve got a screw knocker that fits on a rivet gun. It makes quite an impact!

    XJ4Ever.com has a bunch of specialty tools as well. He deals in Vessel JIS.
     
  15. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    What amazes me is the "set" taken by our pilot jets....
     
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  16. Goldenboy

    Goldenboy . XS650.com Supporter

    Just a little heat, enough to do the trick, sometimes, but it tales more time and leaves a smudge.
     
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  17. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I'd try the ones from 2M's Chapman link. Looks like they're made there on site in Connecticut.

    Almost sounds occult.
     
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  18. Goldenboy

    Goldenboy . XS650.com Supporter

    Actually, old fashioned and low tech. I've never tried summoning any spirits in the garage.
     
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  19. xjwmx

    xjwmx XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I respect old-fashioned and low tech, but it seems like almost anything would be a better heat source :)
     
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  20. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Pete, I'm sure you have the regular screwdriver handle bit holder for those 1/4" bits, but now it's time to get some "specialty" ones, in particular a stubby and a T handle. The stubby is wonderful for the smaller stuff like switch housings, and for carb work. As 2M mentioned, for some reason the brass jets seem to get tighter all on their own after they've been in there for a while. I use only a stubby screwdriver for all my jet installing. It allows you to get them tight enough, but not too tight. I "work" the jets when installing them, making them tight then loose, tight, loose, etc. to get a "feel" for the perfect medium tightness I'm looking for .....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My other favorite for small work is the knurled "finger" bit holder .....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It has a 1/4" drive on the back side and can be fitted to a ratchet if need be .....

    [​IMG]

    The T handle is my choice for initially loosening tight screws, the last step before resorting to the impact. It usually does the trick .....

    [​IMG]
     

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