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Whats your engine oil?
- Thread starter XS-IVE Habit
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- engine
Dirty oil = shit oil IMO( s'pose it depends on how you define dirty though )the poor ol' XS doesnt have filters, just strainers so the 'dirts' going to be 'big' .... And any oil thats been mashed up in those big XS engine bearings for a thousand miles mustve earned early retirement 
Ive probably owned over 200 bikes in the last 40 years, including some 50+ XS's, Ive never worn an engine due to lack of oil maintannance, so if Im being anal about early oil-changes then I can live with it
Ive probably owned over 200 bikes in the last 40 years, including some 50+ XS's, Ive never worn an engine due to lack of oil maintannance, so if Im being anal about early oil-changes then I can live with it
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jackstraw650
XS650 Addict
Chuck, there are several factors in play regarding the need to change your oil every 1000 miles:
1] The oil is dealing with fairly constant high temperature. The XS is an aluminum, air cooled engine that operates at high rpm[compared to most cars]. This situation makes viscosity breakdown occur more rapidly, which degrades the oil's protective abilities. Although modern synthetic oils like Mobil One certainly resist heat breakdown better than conventional lubricants, the constant high temperatures generated by an air cooled engine under heavy load still make oil breakdown occur more quickly.
2] In most motorcycle engines the engine oil also lubricates the transmission and clutch. The action of the gears and clutch plates actually "shears" or cuts the oil molecules which degrade the oil's function.
3] The XS has very poor oil filtration compared to modern motorcycle and car engines. This fact exacerbates the problems listed above and the resulting metal particles can shorten or end the life of some very expensive parts in your engine.
So, when you get right down to it, changing your motorcycle engine oil frequently is just cheap insurance. Even at the figures you quoted, the yearly amount spent is minor compared to just about any engine repair.
Chuck
Useful idiot
JackStraw, great answer. I was going to go on with how my old VW with straight 30w detergent, no filter just a strainer with HUGE holes and aircooled has no problem with 3000 miles and it stays nice and clean. But the High RPM, clutch, trany and bearings things beat that down. So now I know instead of just wonderin. 1000 miles sounds good!
jackstraw650
XS650 Addict
MB.........
The fact that an oil is marketed as motorcycle specific really has little or nothing to do with longevity. The basic chemical structure of the oil molecules is the same as other oils from a lubrication standpoint......unless you are comparing synthetic to conventional....the major and most important difference is that motorcycle specific oils don't contain or have greatly reduced amounts of certain anti-friction modifiers that if left in the mix would cause slippage problems in our wet clutch drive systems. This is especially true of some of the newer synthetics developed for high revving alloy engines that the car makers have developed over the last ten years or so. If you use these oils in wet clutch systems like those in our 650s; you will definitely experience clutch slippage, which will eventually lead to the failure of the friction plates in the clutch.
In you happen to run a bike with a dry clutch like most Ducatis or Nortons, this will not be a problem.
If you do a search on this forum for oil threads, you will find some good recommendations for an oil to use in the XS......you will find that opinions vary greatly, but I think everyone will agree that oils with large amounts of anti friction modifiers should not be used in wet clutch bikes.
Hope this helps somewhat..........
The fact that an oil is marketed as motorcycle specific really has little or nothing to do with longevity. The basic chemical structure of the oil molecules is the same as other oils from a lubrication standpoint......unless you are comparing synthetic to conventional....the major and most important difference is that motorcycle specific oils don't contain or have greatly reduced amounts of certain anti-friction modifiers that if left in the mix would cause slippage problems in our wet clutch drive systems. This is especially true of some of the newer synthetics developed for high revving alloy engines that the car makers have developed over the last ten years or so. If you use these oils in wet clutch systems like those in our 650s; you will definitely experience clutch slippage, which will eventually lead to the failure of the friction plates in the clutch.
In you happen to run a bike with a dry clutch like most Ducatis or Nortons, this will not be a problem.
If you do a search on this forum for oil threads, you will find some good recommendations for an oil to use in the XS......you will find that opinions vary greatly, but I think everyone will agree that oils with large amounts of anti friction modifiers should not be used in wet clutch bikes.
Hope this helps somewhat..........
Chuck
Useful idiot
I am no expert on oils, but I did a little web research lately and there seems to be some major problems with new oils for older cars. To keep from harming catalytic converters they reduced certain antiscuff additives and added others that are super slippery. The result is that surfaces like cam surfaces on older vehicles get worn down rapidly. The very slippery additives are bad for clutches like others have said. It looks to me like the XS cam surfaces are very much like those on older cars. So I am guessing the MC specific oils may solve both fo these problems. My vote is for MC specific oils becuase they are likely engineered for all these unique cercumstances that we would not see in a modern car engine. As for brand, I think who cares if you change it at 1000 miles like everyone says to do. Thats not enough time to break down the oil, so no extra value with Mobile 1 or synthetics. However if you don't want to do 1000 mile oil changes, I would go with Mobil 1 as it will last longer before breaking down.
uknowme2goog
XS650,1980, Bobber
I was going to use Castrol Syntec SAE 10w-40 synthetic oil, this weekend for a oil change..what do you think..?? I have a 1980 XS650?
Chuck
Useful idiot
I think that Castrol Syntec SAE 10w-40 synthetic oil is a car engine oil. I would not do that, I would get MC specific oil.
Once a few years back I used Mobile 1 in my Honda XL250 thinking I was giving it special care. The clutch started acting badly. A friend laughed at me and said (After I had bought new clutch disks) "Just change your oil to MC specific you knuckle head!" He was right. I gave the clutch disks to the new owner a few years later.
Once a few years back I used Mobile 1 in my Honda XL250 thinking I was giving it special care. The clutch started acting badly. A friend laughed at me and said (After I had bought new clutch disks) "Just change your oil to MC specific you knuckle head!" He was right. I gave the clutch disks to the new owner a few years later.
do not use "car" motor oil ever in your motorcycle.
uknowme2goog
XS650,1980, Bobber
is royal purple...20-50 or mob 1 20-50 motor cycle oil but i see people in the thread using it??
Chuck
Useful idiot
Mobile 1 makes a MC specific oil. I don't know abour Royal Purple. I see at the autoparts store MC oils that say so on the label. Use those and buy whatever brand or grade and you are golden. Don't do anything else unless you are a guru. Some gurus use Rotela a diesel oil. That may be good, but I dunno. Diesel oils have additives that are not in car oils (anymore) so can help older engines. But I don't know how they are with clutches. There are engineers who spend their whole life coming up with these oils and they know stuff that is hard to figure out on your own.
Use any kind of oil you want as long as it's 20-50 motorcycle oil for wet clutches.
HAHAHAHAHA..........
Seriously. Even if ya have to spend 5 bucks a quart, don't be cheap, it's only 2 quarts at the most.
HAHAHAHAHA..........
Seriously. Even if ya have to spend 5 bucks a quart, don't be cheap, it's only 2 quarts at the most.
uknowme2goog
XS650,1980, Bobber
I just purchased Mobil 1 4T 10w-40 - Motorcycle specific oil....tomorrow i will install the oil. what differance do you think i will see as compaired to reg 10w-40 oil?
Tech7
XS650 Junkie
I use BradPenn 20w50 motorcycle oil. This is good stuff. Hard to find but worth it. We use it in all the classics/racecars. Google it. Good website.
I use cheap 20-50, the Wal-Mart brand in fact, and change it often (every 1000 miles). The guy at the check-out counter told me Mobil makes it for them and I think it's good oil. I've had no clutch slipping problems in several years of using it.
If you're concerned about the clutch slipping additives, read the API "donut" on the back of the bottle. Oils with those additives will be marked "Energy Conserving" in the ring. Most 40w and above oils don't contain them .....
If you're concerned about the clutch slipping additives, read the API "donut" on the back of the bottle. Oils with those additives will be marked "Energy Conserving" in the ring. Most 40w and above oils don't contain them .....
uknowme2goog
XS650,1980, Bobber
do you think you will feel a differance between syc oil oil, like Mobil 1 and conventional oil, other than the extra cost?
jackstraw650
XS650 Addict
I don't think you would notice much difference in an XS between syn and conventional oils. Shifting gears might be a tad smoother and the engine might spin a bit easier but other than that, I doubt it. Another thing we need to remember about this topic is that these[XS]engines were built with 35 year old metallurgy and technology. What this means is that the clearances in these engines are more loose and this expansion potential of these alloys is greater than those in modern engines. Basically, we 650 owners do not need the critical protection ability provided by modern pure synthetic oils, whether designed for motorcycles or cars; especially if using 1000 mile oil change intervals.
A few years ago, in "Classic Bikes", a British classic bike magazine, I read a article about Triumph/BSA 750cc engines where they interviewed Norman Hyde, a very famous Brit bike engine builder and tuner. They asked him about the correct oil to use in these engines.......his reply...."I use any name brand straight 50 weight low detergent oil and switch to a 20W-50 during colder weather. The key is to change it frequently" When asked out his reasons for this policy, he basically gave the poor filtration and high part to part clearances we have talked about before in this thread. As far as I'm concerned this means that my 2006 BMW K1200S will get Mobil 1 motorcycle oil or its equivalent and my '79 XS will get cheap 20W-50 low detergent oil. Just my 2 cents worth.........
A few years ago, in "Classic Bikes", a British classic bike magazine, I read a article about Triumph/BSA 750cc engines where they interviewed Norman Hyde, a very famous Brit bike engine builder and tuner. They asked him about the correct oil to use in these engines.......his reply...."I use any name brand straight 50 weight low detergent oil and switch to a 20W-50 during colder weather. The key is to change it frequently" When asked out his reasons for this policy, he basically gave the poor filtration and high part to part clearances we have talked about before in this thread. As far as I'm concerned this means that my 2006 BMW K1200S will get Mobil 1 motorcycle oil or its equivalent and my '79 XS will get cheap 20W-50 low detergent oil. Just my 2 cents worth.........
