When to rebuilt engine

Haha, that's die-hard gearhead stuff. Glad you enjoyed it.
For more torture, lookup threads posted by members mrriggs, kopcycle, jack, hoffman900.
There's gold in here, just gotta find it...
 
Just for the sake of reference, a total skim (deck) value of 0.016" (0.4mm) would retard the cam timing by 1° (at the crank), and increase compression ratio of a stock XS650 8.4:1 engine to 8.7:1. If that's disturbing, you can get copper headgaskets of appropriate thickness to make up the difference, or double the base gasket...

2M - Thanks for this and the compression increase table!

My head was shaved 1.5mm when I had the valves and seats done. Is my timing now retarded by 4 degrees at the crank and I need to advance it by 4 degrees when i set my timing?
 
Wow, 1.5mm removed??? That's getting into the squish and valve clearance department.
If you can dive into some of mrriggs posts, he shows how to reposition the cam sprocket.
Normally done on his rephased cams.
Might find them by searching on "sprocket timing"...
 
Oh crap, lost control of my decimal point during the conversion process from 0.006" to mm. :doh:

Should be 0.15mm, I have nothing to worry about as far as timing impact.
 
My head was shaved 1.5mm when I had the valves and seats done. Is my timing now retarded by 4 degrees at the crank and I need to advance it by 4 degrees when i set my timing?

Incredible, 1.5 mm, that's a lifetimes worth of head re surfacing......why so much?

0.25 (0.254mm = 0.010 " inch) would have been plenty, even then, that sounds excessive...go for the thicker gasket (crankcase / jugs ) to redeem the thickness lost....
 
Oh crap, lost control of my decimal point during the conversion process from 0.006" to mm. :doh:

*whew*

cookbook_misplaced_decimal_point_1135825.jpg
 
Using this thread a little.
When you decked your head. Did you remove material from only the head or top of cylinders as well? Im about to skim my head 0.4-0.5mm. so should i skim both parts or just the head?
 
... if it isn't leak'n oil from the top end... and the compression test is good and even side to side... change oil often and enjoy... do'n the starter gear swap is a good idea...and might as well do that pesky shift shaft and engine sprocket seals....
this would only require a Saturday after noon.... I always order two seals for each application....(if ya muck one up..wait'n another week for a replacement.. Grrrrrr :( ) de-bur the seal bore...they sell a neat tool for that.. Mikes XS ?... a match'n socket to drive the seals home.. flush to engine case..
 
... should i skim both parts or just the head?

There's 2 routes you could go,

Blueprinting - Deck both cylinders and head.

As needed - Deck only those surfaces that exceed a threshold.

Use a machinists straightedge, against a surface, measure gaps with feeler gauges. Our old shop limit was 0.005" (0.125mm).

In both cases, deck (skim) only the minimal amount to get a level surface.

Decking (skimming) is mandatory after replacing cylinder sleeves.

It seems that these engines have been developing a history of warpage around the camchain tunnel area, showing a gap in there when checked with a straightedge...
 
For guys who aren't anxious to rebuild, the time to rebuild is when it's doing enough of something bad that you can't stand it anymore. Mine was burning a lot of oil but not smoking and had good compression. My starter caught funny and CLUNK! From then on a strange noise when running. Tracking the noise down I discovered the right end of the crank doing like a bent drill bit. So replacing the crank was my rebuild.

I thought it would be a shame to get that far in there without doing rings, esp. after finding good, cheap rings, so did that too. Interesting what I found in the engine. First thing I noticed was no obvious ridge in the cylinder, implying not a lot of wear. The gap of the top two rings were right in the middle of the spec., also implying little wear, but pressing against the wall weakly compared to the new rings I got. The gaps in the oil ring were very out of spec., implying ring wear since the other ring gaps were good. Because of all that and because I knew the engine had had lots of miles, but easy miles, I made very few measurements and didn't have any machine work done.

So you can spend a lot and make everything like new, or you can do what I did and basically fix what was broken and continue on. I had some head gasket leaking before the rebuild but was content to continue putting up with it, so didn't check for flatness. Fortunately it doesn't leak -- the new gasket fixed it.

BTW, I was around 60,000 mi. and have owned it since 17,000. Pamco Pete's ran to 80,000 I think he said. Bad crank killed mine, not sure what killed his.
 
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don't do it if your like me.... that is if there are no nasty sounds or huge smoke screens other wise when you take that top off its always a case of .. mmm... while the tops off may as well do the cam chain guide , throw some new rings in etc etc and before long got a great motor but $$$ doing things that didn't really need doing but may as well since the motors out anyway and theres always that temptation to rephrase :shootme: and meanwhile missing out on all that riding time
 
"scope creep" The bane of all contractors, service industries.
Hard to remember you got here to drain the swamp when you are busy wrestling alligators.
If they start easy, run without out awful noise, and aren't burning oil leave em be.
 
Well, some of it is okay. If you can get a set of rings for $25, and especially if the bores are good, new rings isn't something you ought to fight if the engine is apart already. Likewise new valve stem seals, and toasted cam chain guide. Not to be confused in principle with re-phased 750 kit, PMA, new ignition, or having your own exclusive machinist...
 
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