XS650 Clutch Pushrod experiment & tidbits

[Paj]

New 1-piece clutch pushrods have been found to have these dimensions:

Diameter = 0.315" (8mm), but 5/16" (0.3125) will work fine
Length = 9.570" (243 mm)
Outboard/worm end has reduced diameter of 0.262" - 0.267" (7mm)
This reduced diameter is 0.300" - 0.325" (8 mm) long

Received a new MikesXS clutch pushrod. Inspection revealed that the ends are rough, the body is mill-ground, not polished, and rolling it on a flat plate shows that the rod is slightly bent. I'll straighten it, redress the ends, and polish the whole surface.

Pic #1 - Small-end, my polished/dimpled rod on left, new MikesXS on right.

Pic #2 - Clutchpack end, my polished/dimpled rod on left, new MikesXS on right, very rough.

Why can't someone with all this tech and knowledge just produce an aluminum pushrod that fits the years of Xs650 s?
And why are there parts out there that no thought has gone into like the heat differential in materials. Might as well buy from a Chinese site. You'll likely get the same, if not better product quality.

 

[toglhot]

I just have a one piece steel rod, never noticed any difference whether hot or cold. But, I'd be inclined to try bronze. Bronze is tin and copper, and has good thermal and friction properties, probably not a lot different from brass.

 

[gggGary]

Not sure why Steve needs to be your supply slave?
But Greg MIGHT be willing to help you out?
@GLJ ??
Pretty sure one of his push rods lives in Madness.

 

[GLJ]

Why can't someone with all this tech and knowledge just produce an aluminum pushrod that fits the years of Xs650 s?

I do.
PM me if interested.

 

[Paj]

To allow the clutch worm actuator adjuster ball to seek its own center, preventing side loads on the pushrod, the adjuster tips need to be resurfaced, squared-off. The adjuster on the right has experienced about 200 miles worth of frequent clutch actuation. The slight wear dimple appears to be centered. It will be resurfaced before returning to service.

How could this not be an interesting read. I'm impressed!
I doubt our Japanese neighbours put to experimenting to this extent. This is what years of experience does to a person and a product. Good on you all for going this far. I read how much all the aftermarket stuff is off measurement or form maybe it's because the original wasn't quite perfect leading to these kind of valued experiments. I'm reading this 10 years after the fact but it's relivent as I have one of these 48 year old bikes that need some love. . By any chance is there one piece 7075 rod with stainless ends out there being sold by you fellas that did all the experimenting. I'll buy one to try it out. I'm doing a complete rebuild from ground up and would like this motor to start out again on a steady footing. I should mention as part of the pushrod that I put an aftermarket push lever assembly on the cover but it does not sit the same as the original. I believe it's suppose to sit/install at 90degrees to the cable run but mine installs more like 60degrees. It's the only way it will sit without it pulling too far back. I'd post a pick but I'm on the other side of the planet at the moment. It's the new lever with the 2 holes. I'll try it see how it figures once the bike is on the road and I have one of these new one piece push rods in there. And I'm gonna check that bushing too before it button things up.
Thanks for all your reported experiences.

 

[Paj]

I do.
PM me if interested.

I do.
PM me if interested.

Yes interested.
I haven't contacted anyone via these posts so not sure how to do that.

 

[Paj]

I'm not sure why Yamaha went to a 2 piece rod on the 650. They used a one piece alloy/steel rod on the XS500 which you would think is the best of both worlds - long rod to ease bushing wear and alloy to expand the same.

When I got my 650, of course it needed a new pushrod seal. The new one leaked as bad as the old one because the bushing was worn. Even with a new bushing, the short outer rod still wiggled side to side quite a bit (that was new as well). The bushing and seal cured the leak but I figured it wouldn't be long before the new bushing wore a little and it started leaking again. I put the long rod in and that was nice and solid with no wiggle.

I set my adjustment very tight cold with pretty much zero freeplay at the lever. As soon as the bike begins to warm up, freeplay develops at the lever. This way, I don't have to fool with the adjuster at the lever and do different hot and cold settings.

Has anyone tried an xs500 rod in a 650. The parts lists don't mention compatibility. The idea seems right. 1 piece two metals hardened ends.

 

[5twins]

I wanted to, but see post #3 on page one to learn about the issues.

 

[Paj]

How short my memory.
Thank you. Yeah I don't have a lathe. But then all these posts and findings wouldn't have come to life if it simply swapped across. What's it they say, if it comes easy it's not worth having.

 

[gggGary]

Yes interested.
I haven't contacted anyone via these posts so not sure how to do that.

Click on GLJ's name then;

 

[toglhot]

You could always use Triumph push rods, suitably lengthened.

 

[GLJ]

Click on GLJ's name then;
View attachment 253964

He figured it out.

 

[Paj]

Yeah it's a struggle sometimes, convenient, but a struggle. Too many clicks and your down the rabbit hole forgetting where you were in the first place. I'm one of those old school guys who'd sooner write you a letter and have a mailman, mailperson I suppose, ride up and throw an envelope at ya.

 

[kevski]

May have written this before, the rod and archimedes works across a multitude of different bikes of all brands, so that tells me the rod and ball method is not the problem, as with all old bikes put a new cable on to start with, but on both of mine the problem was a lack of quality control with the pressure plate, when clutch pulled in the plates came off unevenly creating a dragging clutch, when I trued them up, no more problems ever.

 

[5twins]

So it was the pressure plate, not the basket? And exactly how did you go about truing it up?

 

[Paj]

So it was the pressure plate, not the basket? And exactly how did you go about truing it up?

Im going to change my cable for sure but I would also like to know how the plates are trued.

 

[bosco659]

May have written this before, the rod and archimedes works across a multitude of different bikes of all brands, so that tells me the rod and ball method is not the problem, as with all old bikes put a new cable on to start with, but on both of mine the problem was a lack of quality control with the pressure plate, when clutch pulled in the plates came off unevenly creating a dragging clutch, when I trued them up, no more problems ever.

clutch plate truing instruction.

 

[kevski]

To true up, plate was set up in my lathe using the spring seats in the outer face as the correct position, this showed that the friction face was running around 0.5mm off true, I then skimmed this face and smoothed it off using a straight edge, whilst apart i made a new tulip shaped part of the push rod assembly using an old engine valve this had a larger contact face. Bear in mind I had tried all the methods mentioned in this thread beforehand, so as with many I was frustrated by the clutch issues.

 

[toglhot]

Please explain. To true up, plate was set up in my lathe using the spring seats in the outer face as the correct position.

 

[joebgd]

To true up, plate was set up in my lathe using the spring seats in the outer face as the correct position, this showed that the friction face was running around 0.5mm off true, I then skimmed this face and smoothed it off using a straight edge, whilst apart i made a new tulip shaped part of the push rod assembly using an old engine valve this had a larger contact face. Bear in mind I had tried all the methods mentioned in this thread beforehand, so as with many I was frustrated by the clutch issues.

Can you post some pics of the procedure?