XS650SF front fork/axle spacing woes

[denden]

Hey Guys, before i start describing stuff I'd just like to say that this is a stock 650SF front end (1979) to my knowledge, the previous owner was a complete idiot so got knows whats *actually* going on, but i believe it all to be stock 1979 650SF parts.

So the front forks on my xs are being stupid. I've rebuilt the forks with fresh seals and progressive springs, but when install them on the bike well, you can see the pics.

I've gone through previous posts and i've ascertained that my forks aren't bent by A) Visual inspection whilst rebuilding and b) twisting the forks all the way around in the triple trees, the gap does not change and there is know obvious binding.

Following the manual and tightening the axle and then tightening the 2x m8 nuts on the speedo side fork leg leaves the speedo-side axle flush with the fork, which to my understanding is not where it should be sitting. I've got the speedo and top-hat style spacer on the other side as per the microfiche. So currently I'm thinking maybe its my triple trees that are boned?

Anybody experienced this before?

 

[denden]

Oh yea, when installing the forks in the trees, the right fork (non-speedo side) slipped in easy, the right one had a bit of resistance when going into the top tree, but nothing massive

 

[wherearewe]

Hello mate. Nice to talk to fellow kiwis on here!

Hmm that looks a bit weird. It could be the lower triple. If it feels hard to push it up and in thats a sign. When you had your forks apart did you take the stancheons out the lowers? If you think they might be bent then Steve from F1E in Hamilton can sort them out. You would send the entire triple setup, forks and axle. They will come back good as new.

When you re-assemble, try pumping the forks. With the axle somewhat tight (it doesn't need to be fully torqued) and the axle pinch clamp on the left leg loose, the forks should be pumped several times. This lets that left fork leg "centralize" or find it's best spot alignment-wise on the axle.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hey, Kiwis, this similar issue popped-up here a coupla times in the last few months, was bent lower triple. Might find the threads by searching 'triple tree' or 'alignment'...

 

[denden]

If you think they might be bent then Steve from F1E in Hamilton can sort them out. You would send the entire triple setup, forks and axle. They will come back good as new.

When you re-assemble, try pumping the forks. With the axle somewhat tight (it doesn't need to be fully torqued) and the axle pinch clamp on the left leg loose, the forks should be pumped several times. This lets that left fork leg "centralize" or find it's best spot alignment-wise on the axle.

Pumped the forks, no difference.

Could Steve straighten out a bent lower triple tree? I'm pretty sure its not the stanchions.

 

[wherearewe]

Yes he can as they are cast. He did mine for me! I had both stancheons bent and the lower triple bent. Not very expensive either. You will probably find that your stancheons are actually slightly bent. They bow from years of braking force and road bumps.

When i sent it i had it all in parts so he was able to work quickly and easily.

Here is his site

http://rapidartnz.com

Perhaps someone else will chime in with a suggestion, but from your pictures, it looks as though the setup is bent outwards making it wider than it should be. If it doesnt change when you rotate the stancheon it could well be lower triple.

This thread here has some good stuff that may be of help to you.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24712

 

[denden]

Cheers wherearewe! Ill hit him up. I'll pull out the forks and hit them with the dial gauge to confirm. Where abouts in NZ are you based out of curiosity? Would be good to shoot the shit with someone else who has gone through the pain of Previous Owner stupidity

I'll post up here with some more pics RE how i confirm the stanchions and check the trees, I'm sure some some others will find it usefull

 

[wherearewe]

Im in Auckland. There are a few active NZer's on here. 5 or 6 I suppose. An easy way to eye ball em is to roll them on a flat surface like a sheet of glass...

If you do take apart the forks, consider it an opportunity to look at the 'Minton Mods' and if you are that way inclined add a lowering kit...

 

[denden]

Keeping the forks stock, just doing some upgrades. Minton mods done when rebuilt. I rolled the stanchions over glass when I was rebuilding the forks and they looked sweet as, but I figure no harm in double checking using legitimate measuring equipment.

 

[wherearewe]

The same trick can be used on the lower triple. In that last thread link i gave you, Pamco Pete shows some photos of a bent triple he had...

 

[denden]

Sweet as I'll get it all clamped up and checked tonight, cheers man!

 

[denden]

Right, so I pulled apart the front and the bottom triple was twisted (confirmed by clamping to a flat surface). Got that straightened. Checked the forks in a lathe, they're all good. But, this issue is still happening >.<

So currently im thinking either a) I have the wrong axle or b) the spacers have been messed with? If anyone has the dimensions for that 'top hat' style spacer and the correct length for the axle (total and from step to thread) then that would be a great help, otherwise I'm kind of running out of ideas :S

 

[XSLeo]

It may not be an XS650 wheel. On another thread about the same thing they found it was an xs360 wheel. The front hub is narrower on the XS360.
Leo

 

[wherearewe]

On a spare wheel i have sitting around

Axle is 255 mm total length approx
spacer 20mm total thickness (grabbed with caliper)
tach drive 32 total

 

[XSLeo]

On the three XS650's And two extra sets of forks I have, to measure from the inside of one fork to the inside of the other fork at the axle is about 5 7/8 inch or 149.225 mm.
Your wheel should measure the just a bit less, a few mm's, across the axle.
If your forks measure ok this indicates a wheel problem.
Leo

 

[denden]

Nuts.

So the front fork measures 165mm between legs at the axle. Axle itself and spacer are the right length. What could be splaying the legs out like that?

Unless the triples aren't stock xs650, but they look very very stock to me?

 

[wherearewe]

Where did you get all the parts from? Was it all one front end complete and assembled or was it a box of assorted parts type thing? 150mm seems like a hell of a difference. And you are certain the stanchions are good?

 

[denden]

Hey wherarewe, checked the stanchions with a dial gauge and in a lathe, they are ka pai. This front end came with the bike (provided it never really worked that well, now we know why it seems...)

I'm positive its not the stanchions. So that leaves the triples, Steve from F1 is saying they were a bit bent but now are perfect. The forks are currently assembled on my workbench, so I guess ill pull them out of the trees and measure everything up. Bit of a head scratcher this one

 

[wherearewe]

When i sent my front end to Steve i sent the whole lot minus the wheel assembly. Came back mint.

There must be a logical explanation to this - If we know your wheel is in spec, the triples no longer bent and the forks good. Its not an xs750 triple set or something is it? Some sort of franken-beast?

 

[denden]

When i sent my front end to Steve i sent the whole lot minus the wheel assembly. Came back mint.

There must be a logical explanation to this - If we know your wheel is in spec, the triples no longer bent and the forks good. Its not an xs750 triple set or something is it? Some sort of franken-beast?

Has to be some explanation, it can't just *magic* itself wider

Yea, I've heard nothing but good things about Steve's work and after seeing the dudes workshop, he really doesn't strike me as the sort of dude that would fluff about. I dropped off my entire front end minus the wheel too.

Franken beast... possible. The bike was spray-bombed gloss red, engine was on its 3rd oversize with cylinder scoring, so it hasn't had a good life. Ill post up some pics of the triples tonight, but they look *exactly* like XS650 triples to me, but then again maybe someone on here will know better?