IamTheMarcus
Young & Dumb
Please go in depth a bit more on how it could be "broken", thanks.
Note: If I do give it gas as I'm releasing the clutch, I can ride the bike just fine.
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Yamaha XS 650H - Bike stalls when releasing clutch slowly?
- Thread starter IamTheMarcus
- Start date
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- third wheel
Please go in depth a bit more on how it could be "broken", thanks.
Note: If I do give it gas as I'm releasing the clutch, I can ride the bike just fine.
There ya go Marcus.....that's the norm. I swapped out the entire clutch basket on the '77 for a newer one due to the 'all in or all out' stalls that I was experiencing. A bit of feathering is good.
ANLAF
XS650 Guru
You'll get the hang of these bikes, IamMarcus. They are not the highly sophisticated bikes that are around today, or have been modified for racing. They are tough vertical twin engines that respond to a bit of rough handling. Go on, give that bike some throttle and listen to the appreciative roar you get back.
Anlaf
Anlaf
If it was the side stand circuit the engine will quit as soon as you put it in gear. You say it stays running in gear so the side stand circuit is fine. How long have you been riding?
Leo
Leo
Amazing, you have now found the secret to using a manual transmission. Now that you know how they work you can drive manual cars and trucks as well!
Why would you not want to use the throttle? When starting out from a dead stop, the whole idea is to accelerate the bike, which requires twisting the throttle to add gas.
You need to practice using a clutch.
jd750ace
Front Toward Enemy
Mine pulls from around 1400 rpm from a start just fine. If I tached it up to 3k to take off a clutch wouldn't last a season! Shouldn't take nearly half your available rpm to take off. These things ain't geared that high. I'll make note of my rpm at launch after work. All my bikes will launch very easily.
XSNate
XS650 Addict
The sport bikes of today can have a clutch installed called a "spider".( may also be the brand) anyway it allows the bike to run on low rpm without stalling for such "tricks". also the ATV woods racing guys use them to grunt around in a low gear. the xs will never work this way.
XSNate may be on to something here. Look up Rekluse. The XS clutch is not going to allow for the low speed stuff like one of these does.
I can readily imagine that a rider who learned on a bike with a Rekluse would be in for a few stalls when transitioning to riding a regular clutch equipped bike.
Ken
IamTheMarcus
Young & Dumb
Hah, well you see I'm only 14, I acquired my great uncles old XS, and I've started rebuilding it with the help of my dad, (He doesn't know much about motorcycles, but enough I should say) My first time actually riding the bike was last week Friday. So I'm practicing riding around the yard, I'll be able to take it on the street in about a year.
On topic: I take off at about 2,100 RPMs from 1,100 RPMs
PT Barnum "you will never go broke underestimating the ........ American public."
Don't feel bad, I have been on dirt bikes and quads my whole life, been driving manual cars for 15 years, ridden many a road bike, and STILL stalled my xs quite often the first handful of times I was on it. It has a weird happy spot.
I would def try just giving it some more gas as you feel it start to grab.
I would def try just giving it some more gas as you feel it start to grab.
Well at 14 my guess is that your technique just needs a bit more work.
Practice is a good thing. I think someone mentioned a motorcycle safety course. Around here the MSF Motorcycle Safety Foundation I think it is sponcers a beginners riding course. They supply 250 cc bikes and you have a day of classroom learning with a day of Riding the bikes on a closed course.
If you pass the course you get your license with out taking a road test. The Harley dealer has a big parking lot they use for the riding course.
Last I looked it was $275. They have an advanced course for riders with some riding time, where you ride your own bike and they show you all the bad habits you have and how to correct them. I'm not sure on the price of that one.
I think the beginners course is a good thing. You learn all the right ways to do things so you don't learn the bad habits.
Leo
Practice is a good thing. I think someone mentioned a motorcycle safety course. Around here the MSF Motorcycle Safety Foundation I think it is sponcers a beginners riding course. They supply 250 cc bikes and you have a day of classroom learning with a day of Riding the bikes on a closed course.
If you pass the course you get your license with out taking a road test. The Harley dealer has a big parking lot they use for the riding course.
Last I looked it was $275. They have an advanced course for riders with some riding time, where you ride your own bike and they show you all the bad habits you have and how to correct them. I'm not sure on the price of that one.
I think the beginners course is a good thing. You learn all the right ways to do things so you don't learn the bad habits.
Leo
Well nobody has talked about gearing. When I bought my XS I was able to roll away from a dead stop as if I were riding a tractor but after I switched to those tall gears (18-32) it requires some playing with the throttle to get it to roll away.
Also, if carbs, timing and other settings aren't RIGHT then power will be low and power is lowest at idle.
That said, most of us will not be able to roll off from a dead stop on a stock XS650 without at least a little bit of throttle but those who have their XSs RIGHT, not geared too tall and practice long enough will be able to do so... eventually.... after you break enough of the bad habits we all learn over the course of many years.
Also, if carbs, timing and other settings aren't RIGHT then power will be low and power is lowest at idle.
That said, most of us will not be able to roll off from a dead stop on a stock XS650 without at least a little bit of throttle but those who have their XSs RIGHT, not geared too tall and practice long enough will be able to do so... eventually.... after you break enough of the bad habits we all learn over the course of many years.
Here it's free if you're under 18. If he is 14. If it's free here, then it's free everywhere, because we're the 50th most progressive state
IamTheMarcus welcome and congratulations on your new acquisition.
Some of these replies aren't informational for you. They are barbs directed at other posters and you will learn to separate the kernels from the chaff.
These like an idle of 1200 rpm warm, so after the engine has warmed if you still are at 1100 bump it a tich with the screw that is at the opposite end of throttle link from the throttle cable.
This is the idle screw not to be confused with the mixture screws or sync screw.
Started cold this is achieved with the variable position choke cable(as provided in the stock off the showroom floor condition). The thumb lever located on the bottom of the left switch housing.
What Leo says about the sidestand switch is true in my experience. If left down(the sidestand) with the clutch disengaged(hand lever pulled in) and the shift lever is moved to the first(or second) gear position the bike dies/stalls. You can replicate this yourself to become familiar. It is a good thing to know because those switch's do go bad and then the stall happens even if the kickstand is up. There is a work around to this if it happens so you don't need a replacement immediately.
What you are experiencing with the dying trying to take off with no throttle is the difference between a no load idle and a load idle. As pointed out by RecycleBill gearing effects this. The technology of the ignition and fuel delivery(as you saw in the videos) also effects this. I can and have idled my bikes down the road waiting for a light to change or putting in a parking lot in front of Harleys the difference is about 300 rpm(900 vs. 1200 ime). But taking off and the transition requires some throttle assistance. Also if there is a hiccup in the ignition at this point it will buck and die sometimes causing me to fall over if some remedial action isn't applied(disengaging the clutch or adding throttle). With more experience you will learn this also.
The need for MSFC. You are doing just fine in your yard. It will teach you things the course ( a controlled environment) won't. Riding on grass will teach you about torque slip. When you get brave enough to "open her up" (and you will) while putting round the yard you will find the back wheel spinning and the bike slipping sideways. Fun if you can control it. A paint spoiler if you can't. You will also be learning about brake sliding. Too much rear brake on grass and it lock up and slide out from under you.
And you will be doing this as you gain confidence. It is fun if controlled and a paint spoiler if not. All this experience will help you on the road because on the road you don't have a controlled area and you have to take it as it comes. Wet from a little rain or wet from a lot of rain, oil spots at intersections, the groove pattern changes from where the machine overlaps when cutting rains grooves in the pavement, wavy asphalt or the bump/hump when they are laying a new layer of asphalt you will have to learn to deal with these and other things(like the couch that fell out of a vehicle and is sitting crossways of your lane). If you need someone to hold your hand or want the price breaks then the MSFC is a good thing I suppose. In my opinion an open pasture and lots of jack rabbits to chase is an excellent teacher.
You have been given an excellent example of a motorcycle. Large enough to feel the thrill. Small enough to be handled by a smaller person.
Just don't hammer it too hard or things will start to deteriorate. You will ruin the valve ends and adjusters. The crank will start to spread. The dogs on the transmission gears break. While the XS can roar be aware there are limitations and if you exceed those a price is paid. Ridden with in those limitations you will have a nice bike for transportation and definite chick magnet. At your age and size two up can be more excitable than the ride.
At no feelin like two wheelin, but tatas on the shoulder bones comes close.
Good luck to ya and
Ride Safe.
The cars are only out there to kill you.
Some of these replies aren't informational for you. They are barbs directed at other posters and you will learn to separate the kernels from the chaff.
These like an idle of 1200 rpm warm, so after the engine has warmed if you still are at 1100 bump it a tich with the screw that is at the opposite end of throttle link from the throttle cable.
This is the idle screw not to be confused with the mixture screws or sync screw.
Started cold this is achieved with the variable position choke cable(as provided in the stock off the showroom floor condition). The thumb lever located on the bottom of the left switch housing.
What Leo says about the sidestand switch is true in my experience. If left down(the sidestand) with the clutch disengaged(hand lever pulled in) and the shift lever is moved to the first(or second) gear position the bike dies/stalls. You can replicate this yourself to become familiar. It is a good thing to know because those switch's do go bad and then the stall happens even if the kickstand is up. There is a work around to this if it happens so you don't need a replacement immediately.
What you are experiencing with the dying trying to take off with no throttle is the difference between a no load idle and a load idle. As pointed out by RecycleBill gearing effects this. The technology of the ignition and fuel delivery(as you saw in the videos) also effects this. I can and have idled my bikes down the road waiting for a light to change or putting in a parking lot in front of Harleys the difference is about 300 rpm(900 vs. 1200 ime). But taking off and the transition requires some throttle assistance. Also if there is a hiccup in the ignition at this point it will buck and die sometimes causing me to fall over if some remedial action isn't applied(disengaging the clutch or adding throttle). With more experience you will learn this also.
The need for MSFC. You are doing just fine in your yard. It will teach you things the course ( a controlled environment) won't. Riding on grass will teach you about torque slip. When you get brave enough to "open her up" (and you will) while putting round the yard you will find the back wheel spinning and the bike slipping sideways. Fun if you can control it. A paint spoiler if you can't. You will also be learning about brake sliding. Too much rear brake on grass and it lock up and slide out from under you.
And you will be doing this as you gain confidence. It is fun if controlled and a paint spoiler if not. All this experience will help you on the road because on the road you don't have a controlled area and you have to take it as it comes. Wet from a little rain or wet from a lot of rain, oil spots at intersections, the groove pattern changes from where the machine overlaps when cutting rains grooves in the pavement, wavy asphalt or the bump/hump when they are laying a new layer of asphalt you will have to learn to deal with these and other things(like the couch that fell out of a vehicle and is sitting crossways of your lane). If you need someone to hold your hand or want the price breaks then the MSFC is a good thing I suppose. In my opinion an open pasture and lots of jack rabbits to chase is an excellent teacher.
You have been given an excellent example of a motorcycle. Large enough to feel the thrill. Small enough to be handled by a smaller person.
Just don't hammer it too hard or things will start to deteriorate. You will ruin the valve ends and adjusters. The crank will start to spread. The dogs on the transmission gears break. While the XS can roar be aware there are limitations and if you exceed those a price is paid. Ridden with in those limitations you will have a nice bike for transportation and definite chick magnet. At your age and size two up can be more excitable than the ride.
At no feelin like two wheelin, but tatas on the shoulder bones comes close.
Good luck to ya and
Ride Safe.
The cars are only out there to kill you.
In my opinion, the best place to learn to ride a bike is in the dirt. You learn all the sliding and control stuff, and it usually doesn't hurt as much when you fall off, lol. Riding a bike on the street after that is a piece of cake. You're starting very big. I had a 50cc mini bike then a 65cc Honda. Both had clutches and 4 speeds.
Very true just don't forget you are on the street not the dirt. I almost had a lapse in that the other day. Was pushing the bike pretty hard into the corners on a twisty road, not overly fast but throwing it around a bit. Came to a hard right corner and tried to ride the 650 like it was dirt bike. Results were not the same
Kept it up and under control, but definitely a bit of a wake up/ reality check.Riding in the dirt is one way to develop fine motor skills.
But it is not an introduction to practical motorcycle safety. It doesn't teach you to look over your shoulder before you change lanes. It doesn't teach you how to achieve the shortest stopping distance and how to practice it. It doesn't teach you to not outrun your sight distance. It doesn't teach you how to enter and leave a turn in a way that lets you wind through mountains gracefully and powerfully. It doesn't teach you how to come to a stop without looking like a crash that hasn't happened yet.
The course isn't conducted on the highway, but it teaches in a convenient environment things you need to know to survive long on the highway.
If you read peoples' descriptions on this site of their crashes, not knowing something taught in the course was the reason for all of the ones I can remember reading. The course is thoughtfully put together!
Weekendrider, that is one of the most self-conscious and sanctimonious little bits I ever read!
But it is not an introduction to practical motorcycle safety. It doesn't teach you to look over your shoulder before you change lanes. It doesn't teach you how to achieve the shortest stopping distance and how to practice it. It doesn't teach you to not outrun your sight distance. It doesn't teach you how to enter and leave a turn in a way that lets you wind through mountains gracefully and powerfully. It doesn't teach you how to come to a stop without looking like a crash that hasn't happened yet.
The course isn't conducted on the highway, but it teaches in a convenient environment things you need to know to survive long on the highway.
If you read peoples' descriptions on this site of their crashes, not knowing something taught in the course was the reason for all of the ones I can remember reading. The course is thoughtfully put together!
Weekendrider, that is one of the most self-conscious and sanctimonious little bits I ever read!
Learning to ride in the dirt or on grass will help you to learn quick and automatic responses to slides, wobbles and any other situation and learn to correct or over correct a slide to keep the bike going forward and to upright it.
The more you do these things, then in time your responses will become automatic. Mind you this is also only true if you are the type of person that learns from their mistakes or listens to practical advice and apply it to the situation at hand.
These learning experiences when they become automatic will be of utmost importance to road riding and dealing with practical defensive driving situations. Because of the automatic responses the brain wont have to be dealing with so may things in a bad situation so the chances of having an accident or surviving an accident are greatly increased.
Doing a road riding course will also benefit, even if there is only one thing to be learned, then that one thing could be the difference to having/surviving or not having/surviving and accident. I think they all have a part if there is something to learn.
Take off the indicators, buy some second hand levers and set of tins, (damaged tank especially) and go out on the grass/dirt and have some fun. Always wear good body and foot protection, even a slow fall on gravel will cause a nasty rash and those are the things tthat can heurt more than a broken bone.
Sometime the XS650's clutch engages quickly and is not gentle, it is one of its quirks so getting the balance between stalling because of not enough throttle and giving it to much is a learning thing.
You done the right thing with this thread so keep it up and have fun. Let us know when you get it mastered and any progress or learned things as you get on.
650Skull
The more you do these things, then in time your responses will become automatic. Mind you this is also only true if you are the type of person that learns from their mistakes or listens to practical advice and apply it to the situation at hand.
These learning experiences when they become automatic will be of utmost importance to road riding and dealing with practical defensive driving situations. Because of the automatic responses the brain wont have to be dealing with so may things in a bad situation so the chances of having an accident or surviving an accident are greatly increased.
Doing a road riding course will also benefit, even if there is only one thing to be learned, then that one thing could be the difference to having/surviving or not having/surviving and accident. I think they all have a part if there is something to learn.
Take off the indicators, buy some second hand levers and set of tins, (damaged tank especially) and go out on the grass/dirt and have some fun. Always wear good body and foot protection, even a slow fall on gravel will cause a nasty rash and those are the things tthat can heurt more than a broken bone.
Sometime the XS650's clutch engages quickly and is not gentle, it is one of its quirks so getting the balance between stalling because of not enough throttle and giving it to much is a learning thing.
You done the right thing with this thread so keep it up and have fun. Let us know when you get it mastered and any progress or learned things as you get on.
650Skull
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