HOW to check Chain tension and valve lash>

hotrdd

XS650 Junkie
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Are there any good posts on how to check the chain tension or valve lash or should I just grab my manual?

I searched the Tech section and have found lots of advice on doing it but not the HOW.

Also have a 76 xs 650 and have seen multiple posts on what the correct valve lash should be. What is the consensus?
 
Here you are, sir. Note twins' and Leo's posts, please. I'm not sure on your year bike, though, as to specs. :( Hope this helps!

I put this off for months because of fear of it, but it's not that bad. Just take your time and don't drink beer til after. :)

TC
 
Adjusting the timing chain tension and the valve lash is much easier the second time.
As with most things you have not done, the first time can be intimidating.
On either of these tasks if you follow the book or posts on here you can't go to far wrong. If it runs worse or makes a lot more noise, then try again.
I think adjusting the points and getting them timed is much harder than the valves.
On the specs .003 intake, .006 exhaust works pretty well on most years.
Leo
 
Yeah man, the only tricky part is getting the feel to feeler gauges. However, if you're "not sure" about which size gauge is fitting in the gap, you're probably over-thinking it or just worrying to much about it. After you do it a couple times, you'll be able to do it with your eyes closed in a few minutes.
 
Set the chain tension according to the book but all it said wasnto turn the bolt in until it waslevel with the other piece is that really it?

Also went to check th valves and realized that in my mountain of tools I have o feel gauges. WTF

BUT despite wanting to veg. Out tonight I went to the shop and had a great experience. Rebuilding the Carbs felt like having a drink with an old friend, I went straight to the tool box and grabbed everything I needed the first time. There wasn't any hesitation and the whole experience was just enjoyable. There wasn't any ackward wondering what to do next. Unfortunately I still don't know what the problem is with these Carbs as the rebuild just took them from perfect to perfecter :)
 
On the chain tension. Yes, it's just that simple. Once you get it running and warmed up you can check it while it's idling. Remove the cap and watch the plunger. As it idles the plunger moves in and out. Tighten the adjuster so the plunger moves a mm or so with it coming out to just even with the adjuster.
Some times some engines like it a bit looser, others a bit tighter. You can tell by the noise it makes. to loose and the chain and tensioner rattle. To tight and the chain wears quickly. That's why you watch the plunger. If you tighten it till the plunger isn't moving it's too tight. It needs a mm or so of movement.
On your carbs there are some tiny passages and orifices that are hard to get clean. Some in the body, some in the float bowl.
Have you read the carb guide? www.amckayltd.com/carbguide.pdf
Time spent with the bike, riding it or maintaining it, is time well spent.
And when what you do helps the old beast run better, it gives you a strong feeling of accomplishment that you can't get elsewhere.
Leo
 
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the only tricky part is getting the feel to feeler gauges.

I gave up trying to decide what the right feel was, so what I do is the proper blade goes in but the next larger blade won't go in. Works for me.
 
The book isn't very specific. Should I be able to put the feeler gauge completely between the rocker arm and the top of the valve? Right now there is only space at the front and .000 clearance all the way under.

Doing the left side first I pull the plug and covered the hole with a finger, I then rotate the engine until I feel air getting compressed around my finger and then continue rotation to TDC. When I check the exhaust valves there isn't any clearance completely under the rocker.
 
^The gauge should go completely under, but the next larger size should not fit in, The gauges need to be not rusty. When you put it away, give it a light coat of oil.

Use the timing marks to find TDC and adjust the side that's on its compression stroke (its valve springs won't be compressed), then rotate and do the other.


I then rotate the engine until I feel air getting compressed around my finger and then continue rotation to TDC. When I check the exhaust valves there isn't any clearance completely under the rocker.

Yes, that will work to find the side on the compression stroke, You can have confidence to adjust the right clearance in at that point, even though there's no clearance now.
 
Got it and left side set already. thanks. This was a new engine build and I assumed the rebuilder just set this stuff. The nuts where so tight I had to check that they weren't reverse threaded.
 
This is an email I wrote:
"The engine timing mark needs to be on "T". Remember if it goes past to go around again, not back. Every time you put the mark on "T", get it to be at the same place each time. I usually get it directly over the "T".
Watch the valves. When the engine is at TDC for the side you are adjusting the valves will work like this as you rotate the engine. Exhaust valve will open, so the rocker arm will push the valve down into the head, compressing the valve spring. The piston will be moving up. Then the exhaust will start to close and the intake will begin to open. If you look into the spark plug hole, when the piston is TDC, the exhaust will be basically closed and the intake begins to open as the piston goes back down. Ok? Then when the intake valve is closed the piston is at BDC (bottom dead center), then the piston begins to move up. Both valves will be closed. This is the compression stroke. When the piston goes back to TDC, timing mark on "T", this is when you want to stop the mark on the "T" and check the valves. I know I wrote a lot, but you will understand when you do it. So, exhaust opens/piston going up, intake opens/piston going down, valves closed/piston going up and stop on the "T" for TDC. When the piston is at TDC and ready for valve clearance check, the rockers will not be touching the valves and the feeler gauges will fit between the "tappet" (square head screw in the lock nut in the rocker) and the valve stem.
Try this first to get an understanding of how it works.

We'll start with the valve on the right/intake as you are looking at them. Slide the correct feeler gauge between the tappet and the valve stem. It should just drag. Not loose and you shouldn't have to force it. Then, if it just drags, try the next size up. It should not fit. It's called a "Go-No-go". Correct "Goes" next size up "No-go". If the next size up fits the valve tappet is loose. If the correct doesn't fit, it's too tight. To adjust them you use a 10mm wrench and loosen the lock nut, turning the tappet tight or loose. The lock nut holds the tappet in place. So, if you adjust it so the clearance (lash) is correct, you need to lock down the nut so it doesn't move. When you tighten the nut, don't crank it 'cuz the tappet will turn a little. You want it tight, but not killed. The best way to do it is to loosen the nut, use the closed end of the wrench and leave it on the nut (left hand), and use the square head wrench to adjust the tappet (right hand). Then you can hold the tappet in place with the screw driver while you tighten the nut. If you just turn the nut the tappet will also move. This is a pain in the ass and you will want to throw shit and cuss. It's like a bit too much or not enough, a pain, ugh, but it has to be done. Walk away if needed. Once the the correct gauge fits, but the next size doesn't and the nut is tightened, re-check it. Now, rotate the engine around again. Like the way to begin. Exhaust open, exhaust closes, intake opens, both closed TDC, mark right on "T". now check it again. The "lash" clearance will probably be off. Don't flip out. It happens to me every damn time. Think about it this way. If that happens on one rotation, imagine what will happen to the engine if you don't set them correctly. Adjust it again. Good goes, next size up doesn't, hold the screw and tighten the nut, rotate the engine around and re-check. Do this 'till it is set correctly!!
Each valve has to go thru this cycle. Do not just get it TDC, mark on "T" and set all four valves. Each one has to go thru the rotation setting cycle!!!, each time you adjust each valve, ok? Believe me. Once you do it a couple times you can do it in your sleep.
Re-read this a couple times if needed and watch how the engine works.
When you have adjusted each valve individually using the rotation setting method and each valve is correct with the Go- No-go put the covers back on and you're done."
 
Now that makes way more sense than the manual. Thanks guys. I managed to get the Carbs rebuilt, the cam chain and valves adjusted and then got the bike fired up. Now I'm just running into a problem trying to adjust the Carbs. I have a bunch of reading to do on the dead cylinder method. Let me know if it makes more sense to start a new thread.

- Cam chain and valves are adjusted

- timings set close enough that the bike will fire right up but the timing is still a little suspect. I have the Boyer ignition and if I try and when I try and tighten down the pickup plate the idle just takes off. I'll email that question to Boyer.

- when I tried to use the dead cylinder method adjustments of the mix screw had no impact on idle. How minor is the idle change? Should I check the vacuum on each cylinder first and then do the dead cylinder method?
 
hotrdd;

You said;
"when I tried to use the dead cylinder method adjustments of the mix screw had no impact on idle"

If you have the engine idling at about 1200 rpm, you will not be able to see or hear any effect from the mixture screw. At that rpm the butterflys are open enough that the 3 by-pass holes "bypass" the mixture screw needle. Use the idle speed screw to lower the rpm down to about 300 or 400 rpm...............just to where the engine is close to stalling. Now you have the by-pass holes just about closed off and the mixture screw will control the mixture. Adjust the mixture screw for the highest and smoothest idle. You'll be able to detect a peaking of the engine speed.

You may have to go back and forth..............peak the engine speed with the mixture screw and lower the engine speed with the idle speed screw.

Have a large fan blowing across the engine while tuning.

If you can't get the engine speed down low to 300 or 400 rpm on the one cylinder, that would mean the carbs are not sychronized.

You don't want to measure vacuum; you want to use a manometer to balance out the 2 carbs.
 
Should I use the dead cylinder method first or use the Manometer to sync the Carbs? When I lower the rpm to 300-400 and start adjusting how much change in RPM should I expect?
 
If your carb set is the '76-'77 one, you shouldn't need to use the dead cylinder method. That set was pre-E.P.A. and you should be able to adjust the mix screws and hear the difference they make with both cylinders running. Start them at the factory spec (1.5 turns out) and fine tune from there. Since they are a linked set, you will have to insure they are synced or at least close to being synced first. Turning the overall idle speed down will help you hear the difference the screw settings make but I usually don't.
 
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